Declining attitude to law and order

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BowdonUK said:
Just 20 years ago nobody would have thought of directly attacking a policeman, even the criminals would avoid it at all costs.

Despite the medias constant claims, the British people are very tolerant. But if this lawlessness doesn't get controlled by the usual forces, I can see vigilantism in the future.
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Really now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

  • Keith Palmer, GM PC 48 Metropolitan Police Service 22 March 2017 Stabbed in Westminster Attack
  • David Phillips PC 34 Merseyside Police 5 October 2015 Run over during police pursuit
  • Andrew Duncan PC 47 Metropolitan Police Service 22 September 2013 Run over by suspect
  • Adele Yvette Cashman DC 30 Metropolitan Police Service 5 November 2012 Collapsed while pursuing robbery suspects
  • Fiona Bone PC 32 Greater Manchester Police 18 September 2012 Shot alongside PC Nicola Hughes
  • Nicola Hughes PC 23 Greater Manchester Police 18 September 2012 Shot alongside PC Fiona Bone
  • Ian Dibell, GM PC 41 Essex Police 9 July 2012 Shot while off duty and confronting an armed man[7]
  • Gary Toms PC 37 Metropolitan Police Service 11 April 2009 Thrown from police vehicle during pursuit[5]
  • Christopher Roberts PC 47 Metropolitan Police Service 26 December 2007 Collapsed and died after a violent arrest
  • Jonathan Charles Henry PC 36 Bedfordshire Police 11 June 2007 Stabbed
  • Richard Gray PC 43 West Mercia Constabulary 6 May 2007 Shot
  • Conal Daood Hills PC 36 West Yorkshire Police 19 November 2006 Vehicle crashed during police pursuit
  • Joseph Geoffrey Carroll PC 46 Northumbria Police 13 April 2006 Traffic collision while transporting a prisoner[5]
  • Sharon Beshenivsky PC 38 West Yorkshire Police 18 November 2005 Shot while responding to an armed robbery[5]
  • Michael Swindells, QGM DC 44 West Midlands Police 21 May 2004 Stabbed[5]
  • Ian Nigel Broadhurst PC 34 West Yorkshire Police 26 December 2003 Shot[5]
  • Thomas Andrew Jackson PC 46 South Yorkshire Police 13 December 2003 Collapsed while dispersing rioters
  • Andrew James PC 38 South Wales Police 2 August 2003 Accidentally run over while pursuing suspect[11][d]
  • Stephen Robin Oake, QGM DC 40 Greater Manchester Police 14 January 2003 Stabbed[5]
  • Gerald Walker PC 42 Nottinghamshire Police 9 January 2003 Run over
  • Bryan Reginald Moore PC 39 Leicestershire Constabulary 15 August 2002 Rammed by vehicle being pursued
  • Andrew Carl Munn PC 37 Leicestershire Constabulary 15 August 2002 Rammed by vehicle being pursued
  • Gary John Veal PC 46 Essex Police 13 January 2002 Vehicle struck
  • Malcolm Edward Walker PC 46 West Midlands Police 4 October 2001 Vehicle struck during a pursuit
  • Alison Armitage PC 29 Greater Manchester Police 5 March 2001 Run over by suspect[5]
  • Jonathan Bruce Odell PC 30 Kent County Constabulary 19 December 2000 Run over[5]
  • Garry Wozencroft PC 35 South Wales Police 30 June 2000 Vehicle crashed during police pursuit
  • Kulwant Singh Sidhu PC 24 Metropolitan Police Service 25 October 1999 Fell through roof while pursuing suspects
  • Raja Bashrat Ahmed PC 35 Greater Manchester Police 31 August 1999 Motorcycle rammed into oncoming traffic by suspect[4]
  • Stephen Jones PC 34 Avon and Somerset Constabulary 17 May 1999 Run over
  • Jeffrey Barry James Tooley PC 26 Sussex Police 25 April 1999 Run over
  • Robert Nathans PC 49 Greater Manchester Police 27 February 1999 Collapsed and died after pursuing suspect on foot
  • Nina Alexandra MacKay WPC 25 Metropolitan Police Service 24 October 1997 Stabbed
  • Keith Maddison PC 46 Durham Constabulary 21 May 1997 Collapsed and died while pursuing suspects from a stolen vehicle
  • George Pickburn Hammond PC 58 Metropolitan Police Service 13 December 1995 Stabbed
  • Sandra Jane Edwards WPC 28 South Yorkshire Police 10 May 1995 Vehicle crashed during police pursuit
  • Phillip John Walters PC 28 Metropolitan Police Service 18 April 1995 Shot
  • Lewis George Fulton PC 28 Strathclyde Police 17 June 1994 Stabbed[8][c]
  • Derek John Carnie Robertson Sgt 39 Metropolitan Police Service 9 February 1994 Stabbed
  • Hugh John Moore, QPM Cmdr 64 City of London Police 4 December 1993 Collapsed during an arrest
  • Patrick Dunne PC 44 Metropolitan Police Service 20 October 1993 Shot
  • William Forth Sgt 34 Northumbria Police 21 March 1993 Stabbed
  • Glenn Thomas Goodman SPC 37 North Yorkshire Police 7 June 1992 Shot[9]
  • James Morrison, QGM DC 26 Metropolitan Police Service 13 December 1991 Stabbed
  • Alan Derek King Sgt 41 Metropolitan Police Service 29 November 1991 Stabbed
  • Bernard Leslie Bull PC 35 Northumbria Police 31 January 1991 Collapsed and died during an arrest
  • Robert Chenery Gladwell PC 37 Metropolitan Police Service 6 January 1991 Assaulted during an arrest
  • Peter Burnett PC 42 Lancashire Constabulary 7 October 1990 Collapsed while dispersing rioters
  • Laurence Peter Brown PC 27 Metropolitan Police Service 28 August 1990 Shot
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True it's not "officer hurt", but it gets the message across.
 
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BowdonUK said:
Shocking bodycam footage shows man repeatedly punching a police officer in the face and attacking her colleague
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-repeatedly-punching-police-officer-face.html



Apart from that both police officers were female and couldnt control the suspect, it again shows the disrespect people have for not only the police, but when that police officer is a woman they don't care either.
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I believe in equal opportunity (but not outcome) but this really does show they are incapable of doing the job due to their physical limitations. Reminds me of that video of the female officer being dragged along by a guy just walking normally, no chance of doing the role they are employed to do especially with modern disdain for the police and law.
 
There's only disdain because they aren't present, having a police force not being able to be trusted
to respond to a crime is a matter of fact, tends to leave a bad image.

Hopefully resolved when the plod regains it's officers, regardless this is no different from the 90s or the 2000s, making it out to be is disingenuous.
 
There does seem to be a rise in attacks on the police however, the police themselves are saying it is getting worse.
 
200sols said:
There does seem to be a rise in attacks on the police however, the police themselves are saying it is getting worse.
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Hardly surprising when the chance of lone patrols are increased due to the lack of resource, that obviously isn't the only reason, but it compounds the lack of respect and increasing source of problems.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...chment_data/file/726403/hosb1118-assaults.pdf

Saying something like "20 years ago it was ******* rosy and ****", when it wasn't is kinda not ok.
 
StriderX said:
There's only disdain because they aren't present, having a police force not being able to be trusted
to respond to a crime is a matter of fact, tends to leave a bad image.

Hopefully resolved when the plod regains it's officers, regardless this is no different from the 90s or the 2000s, making it out to be is disingenuous.
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It's potentially a bit worrying having a load of newly trained, inexperienced coppers out there I have to say!


As to the decades and violence against police, it was much less when ecstasy was at its peak social use! Totally anecdotal but I remember talking to an ex mancurian copper who said it was a shame when it was cracked down on, because the streets were a much nicer place for them then!
 
StriderX said:
Hardly surprising when the chance of lone patrols are increased due to the lack of resource, that obviously isn't the only reason, but it compounds the lack of respect and increasing source of problems.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...chment_data/file/726403/hosb1118-assaults.pdf

Saying something like "20 years ago it was ******* rosy and ****", when it wasn't is kinda not ok.
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Your right (for once :D) hopefully with an increase in police numbers things will settle down a bit but its not just police numbers as you say, there seems to be an awful lot of angry people particularly men out there with no respect intent on causing harm.

The 20 years comment was pretty stupid I agree, based on nothing but viewing the past through rose tinted goggles.
 
Threepwood said:
As to the decades and violence against police, it was much less when ecstasy was at its peak social use!
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And when was that exactly?

Single crewing is absolutely a factor on police assaults. From personal experience, police assaults have gone up a lot in the last few years, but there's also most focus on reporting them.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
And when was that exactly?

Single crewing is absolutely a factor on police assaults. From personal experience, police assaults have gone up a lot in the last few years, but there's also most focus on reporting them.
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I don't know a single officer who hasn't been assaulted. Drink and drugs seem to be the main contributors.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
And when was that exactly?
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I guess it was up to decade earlier in manchester than the rest of the country! late 80's/early 90's. If you know anyone who worked manchester then ask them! By the late 90's after the crack down (leah betts death etc) Everywhere seemed to get an influx of drunks back.

I'm genuinely interested in you asking, if you know anyone who was working the streets back then if they found it any different.
 
I suspect that a significant factor in antipathy between some sections of the public and the Police has a great deal to do with cuts and the resulting lack of "contact". About the only time that most people come into contact with a Police Officer is as a result of either an actual crime or a suspected crime. Bobbies on the beat don't exist any more - if they ever did.

Having said that, respect in general is in sad decline. There are many reasons for this, the desire in the media to "shock" doesn't really help. Three prime examples at random would be the late unlamented Jeremy Kyle, Gordon Ramsey and Alan Sugar - each of these people have made a career out of being rude and aggressive.

Most Politicians and certain "news" presenters don't help either - bizarrely and reluctant as I am to admit it, the Minister for the 19th Century (AKA Jacob Rees-Mogg) seems to be swimming against the effluent.
 
stockhausen said:
This is such a breathtakingly ill-informed assertion that I suggest you do a bit of research rather than wasting time posting absolute nonsense.
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The only person posting nonsense is you. You've made a meaningless post with no contribution to the thread.

I was alive and around in those days. Even people who didn't like the police tried to avoid getting in to a fight with them, because they knew assaulting the police would get them extra prison time. It was self preservation. I'm not sure if that is the case these days with prison time as the judges seem to be happy to let repeat offenders walk free from court regularly.
 
Agreed, you saw plod you kept out of the way especially in 70`s & 80`s you did not much around with them. They only came after if you was up-to no good, and if they got hold of you it was a good old fashioned wack and a escorted trip back home, where you got another wack (not me friends :) from the parents who was fully behind the police side of things.

The problem is 100% left wing attitudes to law and order and shockingly bad parenting who think their little loved one is being picked on & bullied. I suggest prison for families with no TV apart from some exercise yards, or we just cull the scumbags / national service. We need a good war with someone where its agreed in the background via some secret meeting that only scumbags get to fight. (by all accounts thats London made safer/nicer all over a nice brandy and a good meal)
 
This is what happens when you don't have immigration controls. In most cases these are immigrants or children of immigrants so whilst some may have been born here they've not been brought up properly with UK values.
 
Been meaning to post this for a few days

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49207887

100% increase in reports of violence against parents by their own children in 3 years.

'Helen' the single parent from Yorkshire complaining about her 11 year old daughter. Bemoaning nobody is there to help her control the child. 11 years old and she's beating up her mum. Not only is that an epic level of parental fail to have an 11 year old that's that violent but also an epic fail to be beaten up by your 11 year old.

You only have to extrapolate from that age data though to see why we're having such problems with older teens.
 
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