Declining attitude to law and order

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Threepwood said:
I agree, taring everyone with the same brush just leads to problems, there are plenty of travellers who are nice people.... from old to new, I know horse drawn folk who are blooming lovely, I also know folk who live in their vehicles and travel about who are also lovely.

The taring all with the same brush goes both ways and its sad, I know folk who totally ascribe to the ACAB way of thinking, which is also just as sad... some coppers are really nice people and shouldnt be tared with the same brush as the bad apples in the force either.
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There was a story recently of a bunch of "travellers" who turned up at a site and said, "Don't worry about us. We're clean and tidy and all the stereotypes are just stereotypes."

And when they left the place was a bomb site.

I'm sorry but if 99.99999% live up to the stereotypes, I'm not going to lose too much sleep about mis-representing the 0.000001% who don't.

They are scum for the most part. They teach their kids from a very early age that it's acceptable to rob and steal and that the law does not apply to them.
 
FoxEye said:
There was a story recently of a bunch of "travellers" who turned up at a site and said, "Don't worry about us. We're clean and tidy and all the stereotypes are just stereotypes."

And when they left the place was a bomb site.

I'm sorry but if 99.99999% live up to the stereotypes, I'm not going to lose too much sleep about mis-representing the 0.000001% who don't.

They are scum for the most part. They teach their kids from a very early age that it's acceptable to rob and steal and that the law does not apply to them.
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You're not going to hear about traveller types who leave no trace are you, it hardily makes the headlines to be read about, got any real world experience on the matter? Do you know anyone who is a "traveller" new or old? Have you ever been down the road with a group of horse drawn?
 
Threepwood said:
You're not going to hear about traveller types who leave no trace are you, it hardily makes the headlines to be read about, got any real world experience on the matter? Do you know anyone who is a "traveller" new or old? Have you ever been down the road with a group of horse drawn?
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The reason that good news stories don't exist is that these people always cause issues wherever they go.

Not because there are "good traveller encampments" and bad ones.

Take the mess angle. They always leave their mess behind. Every single time.

Feel free to find an article about an illegal traveller encampment* where they don't just up and move on leaving a rubbish tip behind them.

*The permanent "settled" travellers on council-provided plots with sanitation and everything else aren't really traveller sites. I'm deliberately excluding those.
 
You are taring all "travellers" with the same brush..... what I'm trying to point out is there are "travellers" who dont deserve to be tared with that brush, and it only makes problems for them, which is not fair. Because they are lovely people.
 
stockhausen said:
My point is that some people feel that it is perfectly "respectable" and acceptable to tar entire groups of people with pejorative terms.
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He was tarring (tarmac - bit racist?) this particular group. The word '*****' is used for lawless travellers, and it turned out this group were exactly that. You are the one that is grouping all travellers in with these thieving, murdering ******** with your virtue signalling.
 
Threepwood said:
You're not going to hear about traveller types who leave no trace are you, it hardily makes the headlines to be read about, got any real world experience on the matter? Do you know anyone who is a "traveller" new or old? Have you ever been down the road with a group of horse drawn?
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I have lived in traveller central for most of my life. I've never seen a site left anywhere near clear, let alone with no trace at all. We get them here often, it's not great when dogs and kids go to parks and then find used toilet roll and human faeces everywhere in bushes. Maybe this is a South East problem though?

Has anyone here had travellers in their town/village that have left no trace? I'd be interested to hear.
 
You guys don't understand.

I'm not talking about the people you are talking about, I totally agree that the way the folk you are talking about behave is not good.

I'm saying there are other "travellers" who are not like this, who live in much smaller groups (often solo) who are not like the people you are talking about at all.

You've just never met any of them have you? You have no idea.
 
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...victims-witnesses-crime-survey-mayor-16760961

It comes after the Manchester Evening News revealed only one in 15 crimes reported to Greater Manchester Police end in a charge, with fewer still resulting in a conviction or jail sentence.

In all, a total of 333,943 crime outcomes were recorded in Greater Manchester in 2018/19, and only 21,097 of them ended with someone being charged or summonsed to court, Home Office figures showed.
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I think its obvious the police are focusing on the big crimes. But the problem with not picking up on the anti-social behaviour type of crimes is criminality becomes the normal and it begins to train potential criminals up so eventually there will be more big crimes, possibly overwelming the police.

I blame a lot of this situation on the courts for not passing longer sentences on repeat offenders.
 
The people that defend travellers probably have never been near them. They're the vilest scum you'll ever meet, 99% or them, and the same all over Europe. Mentally deranged and somewhat demonic and extremely destructive in all senses.
 
BowdonUK said:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...victims-witnesses-crime-survey-mayor-16760961



I think its obvious the police are focusing on the big crimes. But the problem with not picking up on the anti-social behaviour type of crimes is criminality becomes the normal and it begins to train potential criminals up so eventually there will be more big crimes, possibly overwelming the police.

I blame a lot of this situation on the courts for not passing longer sentences on repeat offenders.
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Is it not largely determined on the funding and resources available, costs a lot to house a prisoner for a year?
 
jsmoke said:
Is it not largely determined on the funding and resources available, costs a lot to house a prisoner for a year?
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It could be. I remember many years ago the excuse was that the prisons were overcrowded, which is probably true.

I think there needs to be a full review of crime and punishment. I think in most cases victimless crimes shouldn't be in prison. But instead put in to community service, even if we have to start doing road gangs like they do in the US.

Repeat offenders, some of which have been in contact with the authorites 20 and 30 times and never end up in prison, need to have longer sentences that double each time they appear in court.

We know most crime comes from a small group of people in society. It's about time the government looked to re-organise things and take these idiots off the streets. The peoples patience is running out.
 
BowdonUK said:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...victims-witnesses-crime-survey-mayor-16760961



I think its obvious the police are focusing on the big crimes. But the problem with not picking up on the anti-social behaviour type of crimes is criminality becomes the normal and it begins to train potential criminals up so eventually there will be more big crimes, possibly overwelming the police.

I blame a lot of this situation on the courts for not passing longer sentences on repeat offenders.
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You are completely wrong.

The problem is we don't have enough resources or Police officers to find offenders to charge them, as your quote says. A lot of crimes that are reported have 0 lines of enquiry.

Someone smashed your car window in the middle of the night? OK, what do you want the police to do about it? Doesn't matter that we are "soft on crime" if we don't have a criminal to even charge.
 
I have never met a decent traveller community in my years dealing with the public.

In my experience crime rates including burglaries, assaults, thefts, fraud, counterfit currency all spikes when they enter an area.
 
200sols said:
The usual suspects are out I see and defending the scum.
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I don't defend the traveller community, I have never had a nice experience with them and as much as I hear that there are nice ones and don't want to tar all of a certain people with the same brush, I'm not going out of my way to defend them and their chosen culture. As long as people don't get racist.
 
Threepwood said:
I'm saying there are other "travelers" who are not like this, who live in much smaller groups (often solo) who are not like the people you are talking about at all.
You've just never met any of them have you? You have no idea.
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Perhaps we've not met any of them because they are in the minority and therefore largely irrelevant to the discussion? I've had plenty of experience of travelers over the years - I've almost always lived near open fields and common land - and two stereotypes attributed to them have been shown to be true time and time again.

Firstly that they leave an pile of crap behind after themselves - every single time - which the local community end up paying to clear up.
Secondly antisocial behaviour and crime - theft usually - spikes whenever they are around.

It would be great if this wasn't the case and certainly for the 'settled' travelers this does seem to be less the case - my guess being that they have more of a stake in the local community when they don't move around. However, largely it is the case and 'Pykies' (a term contemporaneously used to describe trouble making and habitually criminal travelers) deserve the reputation they have earned.
 
jsmoke said:
The people that defend travellers probably have never been near them. They're the vilest scum you'll ever meet, 99% or them, and the same all over Europe. Mentally deranged and somewhat demonic and extremely destructive in all senses.
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They are a few camps in the Cambridge area. I fail to see any positives.
 
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