Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20

[CaptainComedy]

"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

are you saying computer science isn't about computer related topics?

if that is the case, then my computer science degree really is useless now and thus proving my point

 

[dowie]

Trojan Horse, it kind of depends on your risk appetite and competitiveness.

Let's say, a degree is the higher risk, higher reward route, and how much you get out of it depends on what you put into it.

^^^ this

if you just want to make sure you get some sort of tech job then the apprenticeship doesn't look like too bad an option - I'm not so sure how rigorous the named degree would be though, the title of it sounds a bit dubious - then again if it does have relevant content for whatever you apply for in future then that issue can be resolved by mentioning the relevant modules/showing a transcript in addition to highlighting your relevant work experience

If you're serious about going for an MSc and have an area you'd like to pursue then do that.... no point going for the apprenticeship and ending up with a mostly vocational degree if there is some area you're really interested in and would like to study at a deep level.

Just make sure you get a good 2:1 and if possible land some summer internships.

The apprenticeship is the risk averse option, if you doss around and end up with a 2:2 or 3rd you may regret not taking it on the other hand the salary from it appears to be low and you could potentially earn a lot more if you're aiming for an MSc from a top university. The debt in this respect is tiny compared to the potential pay off in some fields.

 

[dowie]

if that is the case, then my computer science degree really is useless now and thus proving my point

did you do a vocational course or something?

 

[ultralaser]

^^^ this

if you just want to make sure you get some sort of tech job then the apprenticeship doesn't look like too bad an option - I'm not so sure how rigorous the named degree would be though, the title of it sounds a bit dubious - then again if it does have relevant content for whatever you apply for in future then that issue can be resolved by mentioning the relevant modules/showing a transcript in addition to highlighting your relevant work experience

If you're serious about going for an MSc and have an area you'd like to pursue then do that.... no point going for the apprenticeship and ending up with a mostly vocational degree if there is some area you're really interested in and would like to study at a deep level.

Just make sure you get a good 2:1 and if possible land some summer internships.

The apprenticeship is the risk averse option, if you doss around and end up with a 2:2 or 3rd you may regret not taking it on the other hand the salary from it appears to be low and you could potentially earn a lot more if you're aiming for an MSc from a top university. The debt in this respect is tiny compared to the potential pay off in some fields.

Some sense in this post. But at the OP's age looking at an MSc before you've even started your ugrad seems a bit, well, bizarre, but just IMO

 

[Tunney]

I wouldn't bother worrying about the difference between a 'top 20' university and a lower university. Beyond Cambridge and Oxford, no-one important is going to care where your degree is from. Certain universities will have better links with industry but you'll have five years experience anyway.

To be honest, having a degree is a tick box exercise in software engineering once you've got the experience. I've never once been asked by an employer to produce my degree certificate (which was in physics rather than comp sci anyway...). People like Google are going to ask you some computer science questions in your interview(s) but you'll rarely use that knowledge in most software engineering jobs.

 

[dowie]

Some sense in this post. But at the OP's age looking at an MSc before you've even started your ugrad seems a bit, well, bizarre, but just IMO

I dunno, if you've already got an interest in a particular area then tis certainly something you could be considering... you can always change your mind later or maybe find a different interest.

 

[Biz.Kid09]

I'm 20, I study CS.

Completed 2 years last summer and currently on my "placement year"

Prior to going too uni I worked for 3 years for an IT company doing just 1st/2nd line support. So by the time I finish my degree I will have 4yrs work experience and a degree.

Whilst I don't have much experience to tell you in terms of what it's like getting a job when you graduate. I can just tell you that from my point of view whatever your path it will be extremely difficult to get to Oxbridge or as you have said a "top 4 company eg Google.

What are you doing right now, a levels? What subjects did you take, what grades will you get?

 

[Trojan Horse]

What are you doing right now, a levels? What subjects did you take, what grades will you get?

Bio Psych History AAC at AS, ABB predictions.

Have replied to your trust.

The degree is created between CG and Aston University picking some very good modules which aid with a lot of the work you do on a day to day basis, the first modules have been very good so far albeit challenging, it does test your time management and eagerness. However, I won't go into too much detail about it on here.

Thanks mate! I've received your response.

One quick question - what is the degree actually called?

I've seen it called "Computer Software Development Degree" and "Digital & Technology Solutions" and even "Software Engineering"

"Gregory Wolverson, Capgemini, enrolled on the BSc Computer Software Development degree"

Spoiler

At the end of your degree what is the title of the degree you receive?

 

[dowie]

just done some googleing, this is an interesting scheme - Queen Mary in London is offering it for Law in conjunction with Reed Smith... though for them it seems more like a placement year

looks like Exeter is offering your 'BSc (Hons) Digital and Technology Solutions' degree too and perhaps has a better brand name/perceived rank etc.. than Aston

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/business/working/apprenticeships/

Content covered

IT project management
Digital technologies
Information security
Professional skills
Business information systems
Data modelling and database design
Organisations and management
Systems development
IT law and ethics
Practical workplace projects assessed jointly by employer and university
Specialist/elective modules (software engineering, data analysis, business analysis, cyber security, network engineering, IT consulting)

probably fine if you want to become a business analyst or something along those lines

though if you're interested in post grad study I'd have thought a more academic course would be better

 

[Trojan Horse]

just done some googleing, this is an interesting scheme - Queen Mary in London is offering it for Law in conjunction with Reed Smith... though for them it seems more like a placement year

looks like Exeter is offering your 'BSc (Hons) Digital and Technology Solutions' degree too and perhaps has a better brand name/perceived rank etc.. than Aston

http://www.exeter.ac.uk/business/working/apprenticeships/



probably fine if you want to become a business analyst or something along those lines

though if you're interested in post grad study I'd have thought a more academic course would be better

I'm not too interested in Post Grad, just thought that it might make me more employable or something.

Thanks for finding that out, I've sent them an email to ask which companies are partnering as there is no information on applying.

I'm not sure if they're the exact same degree, but they must be. I think Aston provide SE specialisms as is evident by their 3rd (and 2nd) Year modules:

Optional modules for Software Engineer Specialism:

Mathematics for Computing Professionals
Software Engineering
Programming Language Concepts
Operating Systems
Java Program Construction
Data Structures and Algorithms with Java


(http://www.aston.ac.uk/study/underg...gree-apprenticeships-in-technology-solutions/)

Also QMUL are offering it with IBM degree scheme, that's also something I really am keen to look at (but I cannot find any real information on applying)

How would you rank the Unis? 1) Exeter 2) QMUL 3) Aston sound about right?

 

[Aldav]

Out of interest, where have you seen this?

....

Given my role, and confidentiality commitments, naming names is a tricky issue. As far as I can really go is what I said before, which is some big corporations and especially government bodies, especially in the US but to a lesser extent (so far) in the UK too.

 

[Trojan Horse]

Do you think if I did Digital & Technology Solutions with Software Engineering, at a red brick, like Exeter or QMUL, I would be able to do MSc Computer Science at Oxbridge or any top 5 unis? Alternatively, what would my chances be with a uni like Aston to do an MSc at a higher institution?

When looking at it like that would the CS at Newcastle be the stronger way to go?

 

[tom_e]

Do you think if I did Digital & Technology Solutions with Software Engineering, at a red brick, like Exeter or QMUL, I would be able to do MSc Computer Science at Oxbridge or any top 5 unis? Alternatively, what would my chances be with a uni like Aston to do an MSc at a higher institution?

When looking at it like that would the CS at Newcastle be the stronger way to go?

I had a friend who done her undergrad at Wolves uni and then went on to do her postgrad at Oxford or Cambridge can't remember which one but I think that proves that it really doesn't matter too much where you done your undergrad.

 

[Nix]

Do you think if I did Digital & Technology Solutions with Software Engineering, at a red brick, like Exeter or QMUL, I would be able to do MSc Computer Science at Oxbridge or any top 5 unis? Alternatively, what would my chances be with a uni like Aston to do an MSc at a higher institution?

When looking at it like that would the CS at Newcastle be the stronger way to go?

Do you realise what a daft question this is to ask?

1. You're trying to predict the future. Stop it.
2. Why are you so insistent on Oxbridge? It's starting to read as if you want the ego stroke as opposed to a career.
3. Check the requirements of post-graduate courses. Most places will want either a 2.1 or 2.2. Some may even want a 1st. Almost all will hear you out if you can sell yourself. There is no reason why Oxbridge wouldn't take you on if you achieved a 2.2 but had a good reason and lots of experience and they -- this is the most important part -- genuinely felt you could complete the work-load.
4. You don't need to necessarily worry about an MSc in IT. Most of your post-grad learning will likely be through professional certification. If you're asked to do a professional masters for your company, this will more than likely be through a lesser university anyway.

 

[tom_e]

Do you realise what a daft question this is to ask?

1. You're trying to predict the future. Stop it.
2. Why are you so insistent on Oxbridge? It's starting to read as if you want the ego stroke as opposed to a career.
3. Check the requirements of post-graduate courses. Most places will want either a 2.1 or 2.2. Some may even want a 1st. Almost all will hear you out if you can sell yourself. There is no reason why Oxbridge wouldn't take you on if you achieved a 2.2 but had a good reason and lots of experience and they -- this is the most important part -- genuinely felt you could complete the work-load.
4. You don't need to necessarily worry about an MSc in IT. Most of your post-grad learning will likely be through professional certification. If you're asked to do a professional masters for your company, this will more than likely be through a lesser university anyway.

To be fair the constant talk of Oxbridge and top 4 companies reads very much like a young guy trying to chase the perceived prestige rather than an actual career.

 

[drakioned]

To be fair the constant talk of Oxbridge and top 4 companies reads very much like a young guy trying to chase the perceived prestige rather than an actual career.

It's a valid goal.

Some people want prestige from their employment.
Some people want the feeling they're contributing to the public good.
Some people are in it for the money.
Some people want to be in charge of other people.
Some people are more about the work itself.
(or some combination of the above)

There's no good or bad about it as long you recognise it for yourself and aren't too evangelical about it.

 

[dowie]

your transcript will be important - they'll want to know you can cope with whatever course you're applying for... if it is a more academic MSc then you're probably better off making sure you've chosen the more academic modules (mathematics, algorithms etc..) over the more vocational/'business' related ones.

You could always try to e-mail an admissions tutor and ask - don't hassle them with a bunch of questions but perhaps just mention that you're considering your options and don't want to rule out the possibility of pursing an MSc in future - would the course be potentially suitable for consideration...

 

[Judgeneo]

Apprenticeship all day.

One of the pros you listed for a Russell Group uni is that you could get a job at Microsoft Apple etc.. Yet if you get an apprentiship with the likes of Thales or CGI, you will have a better shot at getting a job at Microsoft etc than someone who just has a degree and an internship.

Its

Debt, low amounts of experience, lots of free time

vs

Salary, lots of experience, no debt.

Simple choice, no?

In your situation the only reason I would be choosing a degree was if I was seriously unsure as to what job I wanted after graduation.

 

[tom_e]

It's a valid goal.

Some people want prestige from their employment.
Some people want the feeling they're contributing to the public good.
Some people are in it for the money.
Some people want to be in charge of other people.
Some people are more about the work itself.
(or some combination of the above)

There's no good or bad about it as long you recognise it for yourself and aren't too evangelical about it.

Very true, I didn't mean it in quite the negative way it came across.
Obviously if that's the goal then the degree is going to be a better choice for that particular aim.

 

[Trojan Horse]

your transcript will be important - they'll want to know you can cope with whatever course you're applying for... if it is a more academic MSc then you're probably better off making sure you've chosen the more academic modules (mathematics, algorithms etc..) over the more vocational/'business' related ones.

You could always try to e-mail an admissions tutor and ask - don't hassle them with a bunch of questions but perhaps just mention that you're considering your options and don't want to rule out the possibility of pursing an MSc in future - would the course be potentially suitable for consideration...

Thanks for that. I've emailed Oxbridge, Imperial, St Andrews. Where else holds word-reputed Computer Science departments?

With the Software Engineering Stream I have to choose the more academic modules such as Maths for CS, Data Structures, Algorithms, etc. You can view the course modules here: http://www.aston.ac.uk/study/underg...gree-apprenticeships-in-technology-solutions/