*** Dell UltraSharp U2410 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor @ £447.99 inc VAT ***

MKay, what kind of tests should i do once i get my monitors? check for pink/green tint on white background backlight bleeding on bottom left?
Well, my advice is not to go in search of problems you can't see :) EG If you had a really mild tint problem, but then went searching for it, you may train your brain to see something it would otherwise have ignored.

But.. If you have the tint problem then light backgrounds should (generally speaking, there can likely be variations of this) show it up as green on the bottom left, pink on the top right. I noticed it a lot on webpages like AVForums, as well as white backgrounds etc.

The backlight seems really good on the U2410. If you want to check just view a completely black image in a darkened room, and make sure it's not in game mode (or, if it is, the dynamic contrast is switched off, as that will darken the screen more than would otherwise be the case, making it look better than it is in reality :) ).
 
Badass, I see you added game mode figures afterwards. I'm curious what timer you used for your testing? The reason I ask is the main issue I came across is the accuracy of timers under Windows. I tried several, and even those who claimed 1ms accuracy, or had specific features related to screen refresh (such as www.xnotestopwatch.com ) didn't seem very trustworthy.

The other issue is measuring just 1 timer on 1 section of the screen. No matter what timer I used, I consistently had results where some sections of the LCD screen were behind more than other sections. I'm talking about things like this..
InputLag_MultiPoint.jpg


Just mentioning it since I came to lower input lag figures than yourself, but did so measuring more than 1 section of the screen and then averaging the numbers, rather than just using 1 timer on 1 section of the screen.
 
MKay: What about that chart ? Is a green/pink issue ?
Your chart looks pretty good - better than the average I think :) As for green/pink tint, according to some others charts (who claim to have had the issue) you can't really tell just from looking at the chart whether the screen is going to have the tint issue.
Yep, this grain is what everyone gets in Adobe and sRGB mode.. So rest assured everyone has it, and has the same results in terms of everything below square 6 on Lagomn being invisible. I don't know the cause, but hopefully it can be fixed with a firmware, at least if it isn't a limitation of how the LUT has been implemented or whatever. The nice thing is, in practice, it's not really noticable on images. If it bothers you then my advice is to run the screen in custom mode and tweak the settings to ones you're happy with. You can get a reasonable compromise doing that (although it appears you cannot fine tune as good in this mode as you can in Adobe and sRGB modes).

One nice thing about game mode is it makes these darker shades very visible without the grain issue, so there's no fear of not being able to see in shadows during gaming etc. We'll need to wait and see what reason Dell give for the Adobe/sRGB grain..
 
Well, my advice is not to go in search of problems you can't see :) EG If you had a really mild tint problem, but then went searching for it, you may train your brain to see something it would otherwise have ignored.

But.. If you have the tint problem then light backgrounds should (generally speaking, there can likely be variations of this) show it up as green on the bottom left, pink on the top right. I noticed it a lot on webpages like AVForums, as well as white backgrounds etc.

The backlight seems really good on the U2410. If you want to check just view a completely black image in a darkened room, and make sure it's not in game mode (or, if it is, the dynamic contrast is switched off, as that will darken the screen more than would otherwise be the case, making it look better than it is in reality :) ).


Thanks for your reply, btw do you use a colorimeter? Does it really improve the display a lot? :D
 
On mine, the green / pink tint is pretty clear. When mine arrived (I knew about the problem from having read about the screen online prior to purchase) I could see it right from the off.

Over the week I've been using the screen (may as well before Dell pick it up), I'll admit to getting used to it however... but when I do suddenly see it on a website (often ones that have their content in the middle and acres of empty space on either side - like the BBC) I get really annoyed again.

You try to convince yourself it's not worth the hassle of a return (a week of use of this excellent monitor certainly tempts one to keep schtum)... I have found myself thinking 'is it really worth the hassle and potential for something worse being wrong with the replacement?'... but the fact is £450 is a lot of money for me and I'm won't except anything from Dell that doesn't meet with the not-unreasonable expectation of a balanced image. They won't stop hearing from me until I do.
 
Thanks for your reply, btw do you use a colorimeter? Does it really improve the display a lot? :D
I don't, and (in the U2410's case) a colorimeter wouldn't really improve the display much, other than perhaps customizing the display to your particular lighting conditions. They're really more of use for accuracy with printing than for visual purposes.

The equipment Dell uses to calibrate their displays is stuff like the CS1000, which is a $25,000 Colorimeter. It's worth keeping this in mind because very very few web reviewers are going to be measuring the accuracy of the U2410 with equivalent equipment. Whilst a cheap colorimeter may provide decent results, it's highly questionable if they will provide the accuracy of a $25,000 piece of hardware :)

That being said, as your display ages the back lighting will change, and at some point you would probably get more accurate colours by recalibrating the display rather than sticking with the factory defaults. So, if you really care about such things, it would probably (eventually) be worthwhile doing your own calibration.

I don't know if proper calibration would help the dither issue below a value of 6 or so on things like the Lagom black level test (in Adobe/sRGB mode). I suspect that might be hardware/firmware related, but since I don't know what the issue is that's only guessing on my part.
 
Mkay, I'm not sure I agree with your view on calibration there. A decent colorimeter is still an expensive piece of kit and can produce some very decent results. As u say they are very useful for device matching (printer to screen for example) but are also very useful for getting accurate gamma, colour temp, luminance and colour accuracy from the screen.

Yes dell do factory calibrate the screen in this case but it is still limited. It's only calibrated in the sRGB and aRGB mode, so if u want to use any other presets the accuracy drops off massively. Dell also only calibrate to bring average dE down to under 5 , which is still not vey accurate in the dE clasification. I agree the calibration is partly helpful but it's still a long way off being very accurate. Also bear in mind that the screen is calibrated with all heir test equipment, so as soon as u take it away and plug it into your pc, your graphics card and your operating system, u take it out of it's calibrated habitat and it's no longer particularly relevant to your conditons.
 
Mkay, I'm not sure I agree with your view on calibration there. A decent colorimeter is still an expensive piece of kit and can produce some very decent results. As u say they are very useful for device matching (printer to screen for example) but are also very useful for getting accurate gamma, colour temp, luminance and colour accuracy from the screen.
Hmm, I wasn't trying to say otherwise, nor dispute calibration can be useful for those things. My point was more related to the accuracy of some of these lower end calibration devices (lower end in terms of the $25,000 type equipment Dell is using), the relevance of this sort of thing to the average end user, and the accuracy of the U2410 out of the box. Edit: Although it has to be said Baddass, as time's went on here and I've seen more U2410's, I'm pretty much inclined to totally agree with you now!!

Out of the box I really couldn't find any major issue with the U2410 in terms of accuracy under sRGB mode. There was the "dither" effect as seen below square 6 on Lagom's black level test in Adobe/sRGB mode, and there was still more wide gamut red tone than I'd have liked. But there wasn't really anything that could've been tweaked a lot better on my U2410 under sRGB mode. The reviewer over on the Flatpanels.dk site appears (it's going via google translation) to have reached exactly the same opinion with his U2410, in terms of satisfactory colour performance out of the box, with no further need to tweak. That also causes me to wonder about some of these cheaper calibration devices and their accuracy, not least when measuring screens that are rated as having a 110%+ gamut..

Yes dell do factory calibrate the screen in this case but it is still limited. It's only calibrated in the sRGB and aRGB mode, so if u want to use any other presets the accuracy drops off massively. Dell also only calibrate to bring average dE down to under 5 , which is still not vey accurate in the dE clasification. I agree the calibration is partly helpful but it's still a long way off being very accurate.
I have a suspicion some of the reason they went for that specific dE number is because, if they went for a slightly stricter value, there's a risk some of their panels - which display more severe tinting problems on white backgrounds - could actually start failing the tests due to the tint!

You're also right to point out the lack of calibration in other modes, although (unless you've got regular uses for a colorimeter) the average end user could just switch between custom mode and sRGB/Adobe mode, tweaking the picture to more accurately match the calibrated values. Edit - Obviously this depends on your screen though - Some seem to be better than others, and I've come to the conclusion that the included Dell calibration chart is not exactly a totally reliable guide in these regards.

In custom mode you can also more fully compensate for the wide gamut issues manually, meaning you've calibrated the screen to the best calibration device of all - your own eyes and personal tastes. It's worth remembering that, whilst calibration devices can provide valuable reference points, in most consumer scenarios what ultimately matters to more people is how a screen looks to their eyes, not what a device (sometimes with questionable accuracy) thinks will match your printer best :) Although that can sound dismissive of the value of calibration devices, it's not meant to be. It's rather me just taking a more realistic view about the actual requirements of many end users, and taking into account that, in my experience, the Dell factory calibration was reasonably decent.. Edit - But, in light of further experience with these U2410's, I'm very much more inclined to pretty much agree with your overall sentiments Baddass..
 
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Hmm, I wasn't trying to say otherwise, nor dispute calibration can be useful for those things. My point was more related to the accuracy of some of these lower end calibration devices (lower end in terms of the $25,000 type equipment Dell is using), the relevance of this sort of thing to the average end user, and the accuracy of the U2410 out of the box.

Out of the box I really couldn't find any major issue with the U2410 in terms of accuracy under sRGB mode. There was the "dither" effect as seen below square 6 on Lagom's black level test in Adobe/sRGB mode, and there was still more wide gamut red tone than I'd have liked. But there wasn't really anything that could've been tweaked a lot better on my U2410 under sRGB mode. The reviewer over on the Flatpanels.dk site appears (it's going via google translation) to have reached exactly the same opinion with his U2410, in terms of satisfactory colour performance out of the box, with no further need to tweak. That also causes me to wonder about some of these cheaper calibration devices and their accuracy, not least when measuring screens that are rated as having a 110%+ gamut..

I have a suspicion some of the reason they went for that specific dE number is because, if they went for a slightly stricter value, there's a risk some of their panels - which display more severe tinting problems on white backgrounds - could actually start failing the tests due to the tint!

You're also right to point out the lack of calibration in other modes, although (unless you've got regular uses for a colorimeter) the average end user could just switch between custom mode and sRGB/Adobe mode, tweaking the picture to more accurately match the calibrated values. In custom mode you can also more fully compensate for the wide gamut issues manually, meaning you've calibrated the screen to the best calibration device of all - your own eyes and personal tastes. It's worth remembering that, whilst calibration devices can provide valuable reference points, in most consumer scenarios what ultimately matters to more people is how a screen looks to their eyes, not what a device (sometimes with questionable accuracy) thinks will match your printer best :) Although that can sound dismissive of the value of calibration devices, it's not meant to be. It's rather me just taking a more realistic view about the actual requirements of many end users, and taking into account that, in my experience, the Dell factory calibration was reasonably decent..

presumably it is also expediency, I think it takes longer to calibrate to a higher accuracy level?
 
I'm about to order one it just seem the only thing i can find that will actually be decent and replace my dead DGM :(

Funny thing is i can't seem to find any Mini-Displayport to Displayport cables, it would seem Apple never thought of them...
 
sorry if this is off topic, but if my power button goes on day 31 they send out someone elses refurb monitor covered in finger prints and fag burns?

The refurb swap is a great service after 3 yrs sure, but not after 30 days!!!
 
Sadly that cable has a incompatibility issue with the HP LP2475w so i would assume that this Dell will be the same as they use the same panel.

I've already ordered a Mini-Displayport => DVI anyway which will be just as good as i believe the macbook does not carry audio over the displayport anyway :(

the panel is separate from the electronics that deal with the inputs etc. so just because it's incompatible with the HP doesn't mean it will be incompatible with the Dell. The only thing the two share is the panel.
 
I got mine earlier today and I'm very happy with it. It does unfortunately have the slight pink tint but I can live with that. I'm sure that by the time I come to next upgrade my monitor there will be a lot better panels out there, maybe even AMOLED.
 
Just about to order.

If i have even the slightest hint of pink or green on a white background it's off back to one dell way! Being as how there are some without the issue there is no way you should accept anything but perfection on a screen this price.
 
If i have even the slightest hint of pink or green on a white background it's off back to one dell way! Being as how there are some without the issue there is no way you should accept anything but perfection on a screen this price.
Although it's maybe a little unrealistic to expect "perfection" at this price point, I pretty much agree with your sentiments. Dell are massively overcharging the UK for this screen compared to much of the rest of the world (which pays under £300 for the same screen), so the least they can do is give us some better quality control for that extra money! I don't think it's too much to ask that, when you pay almost £450 for a screen, you at least get no dead pixels and no (major) uniformity issues. Major in my books means something you can notice during normal computer use without actually having to go looking for it.

I was checking a thread about the newer Apple 24" displays though (the ones which use LED backlighting) and noticed they still suffer from things like green and pink tint uniformity issues, so it seems like it's perhaps something related to the actual panels LG makes rather than the lighting on the screens. I'm guessing part of the problem is the vast majority of LG's panel production is for TV's, and the green pink uniformity issues don't really present the same issues for TV usage, but are very easy to notice in computer usage because a lot of the time we're looking at things like plain white backgrounds on webpages etc.

Anyway, I have another U2410 coming tomorrow, so I guess I'll be finding out if it is too much to ask pretty soon. Fingers and toes and everything else crossed. These screens are really good if you can avoid one with the uniformity issues.
 
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