Democracy, the Cameron way.

Overall I think we should have a referendum. But on the other hand I wonder whether there is a lot of the population who would, having no real understanding of politics and what the EU actually is, vote no simply because of some deluded notion that leaving the EU would sop all the foreigners coming in.
 
I am glad that the whips were out in force to contain the looneys. The Great British Public (TM) cannot be trusted with such a huge decision. It isn't one that can be painted black and white (yes or no), plus most of the public are pretty damn stupid.
 
I am glad that the whips were out in force to contain the looneys. The Great British Public (TM) cannot be trusted with such a huge decision. It isn't one that can be painted black and white (yes or no), plus most of the public are pretty damn stupid.

Why are other nations generally considered able but we are not?

The British public more thick than other peoples?

Why did the parties complain for years for a referendum when in opposition?

I doubt this will be the end of it funnily enough.
 
Politicians in a nutshell:

1. `Above all, the European Economic Community takes away Britain's freedom to follow the sort of economic policies we need.'
Tony Blair, writing in his personal manifesto when standing for Parliament in Beaconsfield in 1982

2. `We'll negotiate a withdrawal from the EEC which has drained our natural resources and destroyed jobs.'
Tony Blair, pledging his opposition to the EEC when standing for Parliament in Sedgefield in 1983

3. `On the day we remember the legend that St George slayed a dragon to protect England, some would argue that there is another dragon to be slayed: Europe.'
Tony Blair, in patriotic and vote winning mood on St George's Day 1997 in an interview with 'The Sun' newspaper

4. `I am a passionate pro-European. I always have been.'
Tony Blair, speaking to the EU Parliament in 2005
 
If you blatantly disregarded your boss' orders at work and went behind his back and did the opposite, it would be a valid reason for him to sack you.

The only difference is it is politics, so much more in the public eye...

kd
 
All Sky are reporting is that 82 Tory MPs rebelled, nothing about what the OP stated.

In fact they said that Adam Holloway and Stuart Jackson gave resignation speeches, but they havent actually resigned as Stuart Jackson stared he is waiting to be sacked after saying that despite his speech he is refusing now to resign!

So, no-one has resigned, no-one has been sacked and no actual ministers have said anything, nor is there any indication that other that the two ministerial aides, that any actual ministers rebelled to begin with.

According to Sky News anyway, the alleged source of the OP!
 
anyone with a brain knew this was going to happen if the tories got into power but they still voted them in. by "this" i mean the generally crap state of governance this country enjoys.

having said that, the current opposition is also a joke so we're really shafted either way.

And the better alternative was........ :confused:
 
What makes me laugh about the EU debate so much is all the idiots complaining about immigrants that have nothing to do with the EU, how many Europeans immigrate here really apart from Polish?

If anything the EU should be ****** off at Britain for practically handing out free visas to China and India due to their colonial ties.
 
Why are other nations generally considered able but we are not?

The British public more thick than other peoples?

Why did the parties complain for years for a referendum when in opposition?

I doubt this will be the end of it funnily enough.

Actually, thats pretty much exactly it, we were one of the most powerful countries in Europe, which tended to mean we moved into this deluded, politician driver decline in our society before other countries. Many EU countries are considered to have better education systems, and the culture here, or lack of it, is noticeable.

Meh, we shouldn't have ever been in the Euro, the strongest countries should have stayed out as we always had the most to give and the least to take basically. Now, we can't pull out now, it's not feasable and if stronger people start pulling out of the EU right now, the EU as a whole will be in major, major trouble, but thats a large part of our income, export, and where we import a lot of things we need to live day to day.

Turn our back on the EU now, watch a major collapse, and see ourselves utterly screwed.

It's a fine line, where do you draw it between doing what your constituents want, and doing what is best for the country. At some level you vote in people to deal with things you shouldn't have to learn about, every single person shouldn't HAVE to know why the EU is good or bad, or why its good or bad now vs back when we got in.

MP's that revolted are doing so for re-election reasons, NOT because they've explained their position to their constituents and NOT because its the right decision but because they are scared of losing their seats in the next election. Ultimately MP's who won't talk or educate their constituents, and won't do the right thing, but will cave to the uninformed public on EVERYTHING purely to maintain their seat, SHOULD be fired, not specifically for this vote alone, but because they ARE incompetant.

We should be living in a country where, education is FAR harder, far more intense and panders to the smartest kids and tries to push everyone up to the same level rather than pander to the worst and just push them to a borderline level of ignorance. Every kid should take basic economy/politics courses throughout school, learning how the government works and how the EU works(if we're part of it or not, its incredibly relevant to most of this country so people should understand it).

The vast majority read crap papers with hysterical stories about handing out 5billion to the EU, while barely mentioning the billions we get back from increased trade, even when the UK ends up losing money, propping up a country like Greece, it has a knock on effect and means we lose less than we otherwise would from decreased trade if these countries collapsed.

Leaving the EU AFTER the recession should be discussed properly, leaving now at the worst possible time that could easily cause a sequence of events that ruins many countries in the EU is, shockingly selfish, shockingly self destructive, stupid without question and absolutely the wrong time to do so.
 
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wait till you get your independance, ide put money on you jumping straight into bed with the EU. :D

We aren't morons, a system like Norway has going for it would be perfectly fine.

Frankly the EU should have been NOTHING more than a Free trade agreement, i have no patience for Washington political bull over here, bickering for months...YEARS for minor problems and when it comes down to it (EURO) they cant even agree to save their own currency (which is frankly a failure, politically motivated currencies are just...i mean...sigh...moronic.)
 
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