Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

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Skunkworks said:
Find me one BLM champion who wasn't

A) Committing a crime
B) Resisting arrest
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Aside from my concern towards your thinking that it's reasonable for police to be judge, jury and executioner, the above fit the criteria:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/death-innocent-man-timeline-wrong-apartment-murder-trial/story?id=65938727

https://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-bodycam-shooting-killing-woman-home/story?id=66237208

https://abcnews.go.com/US/events-leading-arrest-men-murder-ahmaud-arbery/story?id=70576804

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dashcam-v...g-philando-castile-released/story?id=48152901

https://abcnews.go.com/US/nypd-officer-shot-brooklyn-man-indicted-grand-jury/story?id=28869098

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tamir-rices-toy-gun-indistinguishable-real-gun-cops/story?id=27137979
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
See this is why Black Lives Matter is a thing. People like yourself explaining away the authoritarian killing of black people because you blame the victims and believe the police should be able to kill them under certain circumstances while the other half of society is outraged by it. Most modern western societies have evolved beyond such authoritianism.

BTW police were caught having a good laugh about the murder of Ellijah McClain after the fact
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If blm was really a thing, shouldn't they be focusing on another group rather than the police though?

Homicides in 2016

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ANDREW GREEN said:
See this is why Black Lives Matter is a thing. People like yourself explaining away the authoritarian killing of black people because you blame the victims and believe the police should be able to kill them under certain circumstances while the other half of society is outraged by it. Most modern western societies have evolved beyond such authoritianism.

BTW police were caught having a good laugh about the murder of Ellijah McClain after the fact
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Out of control emotions.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
They actually have allowed admission of some of GF's past crimes. They legally shouldn't as it's victim blaming and irrelevant to what transpired on the day
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dowie said:
Which crimes and where has that been claimed? You got a link?

Seems very dubious and needs context, I think you're mistaken.
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Any answer to this yet Andrew, since you're actively replying in the thread?
 
The Running Man said:
If blm was really a thing, shouldn't they be focusing on another group rather than the police though?

Homicides in 2016

20210330-155359.jpg
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Black on black crime is a major problem. You can't realistically protest against criminal murderers though can you?

There's a big difference in the justice system. If a civilian gets caught killing someone they face justice. Justice isn't seen to be done when officers either aren't prosecuted or get off.
 
dowie said:
Any answer to this yet Andrew, since you're actively replying in the thread?
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I'm looking, a US defense lawyer claimed it on another forum I post on, here's his post:

"From a legal standpoint it is absolutely brain melting that a judge is allowing prior police interactions involving the victim. I believe they’ve said it’s to demonstrate the victim’s prior statements that he was a drug user and therefore show an alternative cause of death. But it’s really just backdoor character evidence. It’s disgusting.

Under MD rules of evidence (which may differ slightly from MN rules, don’t take legal advice from a message board kids), there’s only a few instance when character can be called into question and even fewer instances when the character is the murder victim’s character!

I just don’t know how the defense gets around the defendant removing the victim from the car."
 
dowie said:
Just FYI, some other things worth taking into account - the official autopsy report + the 2019 arrest video & details.

I think a manslaughter conviction is a possibility but dubious, though I think really they should have had an assault charge there for Chauvin - I think Chauvin went a bit beyond what he was supposed to do but I also think there is plenty of reasonable doubt re: the knee being the cause of death as opposed to simply:

A combination of the drugs (already high in the store) + more drugs (two pills taken in the car when with friends before police arrived) + more drugs (unknown number of pills scoffed hastily when the police arrived) + his anxiety, raised heart rate at being arrested.

The 2019 arrest in particular gives some extra doubt here - in that incident, he follows very similar behaviour - he also hastily swallows some drugs when stopped by the police and importantly a paramedic later takes his blood pressure, notes that it is very high and essentially tells him that he's at risk of dying from a hear attack! He was taken to hospital and survived... but it gives the context, he has underlying health issues and drugs + arrest then could have risked a similar incident too. That throws plenty of doubt on the idea that Chauving killed him even if Chauvin's behaviour was going too far.
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Yeah I think this is why it's going to come down to a battle of the experts in court. Either the knee killed him by asphixiation or the drugs/stress of being forcefully restrained killed him via a heart attack.. I suppose it's simply going to come down to whichever expert the jury believe. I haven't seen the actual evidence, but I think there was an argument between the state coroner and a private one?

I did see some of the 2019 footage, and it's clear to me that the guy was a pretty prolific offender and criminal - especially when you take into account his history of other crimes.. Exactly how much of this the judge will allow into evidence, remains to be seen I guess.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
See this is why Black Lives Matter is a thing.
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They are a political group.
And if you look on you tube. Caring black people hate them as they are nothing but trouble.
And many blm members are going to jail for taking the money for themselves.

Back on topic.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Okay here we go, footage from a 2019 police stop is being allowed as admissable:

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/9800...e-seated-to-hear-case-of-george-floyd-killing
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So that's a no then this was covered earlier in the thread FWIW... there are (very limited clips) allowed from the 2019 arrest video, the general behaviour etc.. isn't allowed nor are the comments from the paramedic about the possibility of a heart attack, it is specifically there in relation to the consumption of drugs and (objective) measurement of his subsequent high blood pressure + hospital visit.

He wasn't charged with a crime after that arrest and AFAIK no details of his past crimes have been allowed, so this is false:

ANDREW GREEN said:
They actually have allowed admission of some of GF's past crimes. They legally shouldn't as it's victim blaming and irrelevant to what transpired on the day
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His past crimes haven't been allowed for that reason, they're not relevant. His condition (high blood pressure) after being stopped and consuming drugs is however relevant.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
Black on black crime is a major problem. You can't realistically protest against criminal murderers though can you?

There's a big difference in the justice system. If a civilian gets caught killing someone they face justice. Justice isn't seen to be done when officers either aren't prosecuted or get off.
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Well you would have thought that a movement as big as blm could appeal to anyone right, and say, look choose peace not drugs/war.

Maybe I'm just thinking its too simple but that is how these things go down.

Less crimes by proxy reduces the number of police interactions too..
 
Screeeech said:
Yeah I think this is why it's going to come down to a battle of the experts in court. Either the knee killed him by asphixiation or the drugs/stress of being forcefully restrained killed him via a heart attack.. I suppose it's simply going to come down to whichever expert the jury believe. I haven't seen the actual evidence, but I think there was an argument between the state coroner and a private one?

I did see some of the 2019 footage, and it's clear to me that the guy was a pretty prolific offender and criminal - especially when you take into account his history of other crimes.. Exactly how much of this the judge will allow into evidence, remains to be seen I guess.
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The private autopsy won't be admitted by the prosecution, can guess why - most of it came from the bloke watching the footage and then giving a rather favorable (to the family) opinion... if we're being cynical then shaking down the city for a payout via a threat of a civil case was likely the motivation there (and they've now got the payout). They won't want that guy cross-examined in court so the prosecution isn't using it, only the official autopsy is being used.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
I've seen the build up. It doesn't excuse choking a man to death
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Agreed but it has to proven he was choked to death first, there was an incident not so long ago of it happening to a white man and the cops laughing about it, it's all on tape, it simply didn't get the coverage because there was no racism angle to it.

If George Floyd had white skin all of the people in here pretending to care about him wouldn't, primarily because the corporate media wouldn't have manipulated them into a frenzy about it. There's no racism, just highly aggressive policing but then in America the police are in real danger of being killed even just during routine traffic stops. BLM don't hold candle lit vigils when black police officers die in the line of duty or black on black violence, the only black men they care about are those that can be exploited to undermine the police and general law and order and stir up racial tensions.
 
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ANDREW GREEN said:
Black on black crime is a major problem. You can't realistically protest against criminal murderers though can you?

There's a big difference in the justice system. If a civilian gets caught killing someone they face justice. Justice isn't seen to be done when officers either aren't prosecuted or get off.
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Let's ignore the tsunami and focus on the dripping tap.
 
I think we ought to have a poll:

1) Guilty
2) Innocent
3) Guilty but I think he was innocent
4) Innocent but I think he was guilty
5) Cheese & bacon oatcakes
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
I've seen the build up. It doesn't excuse choking a man to death
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Didn't the autopsy show absolutely no injuries corresponding to choking? You'd have bruising, broken bones, a crushed trachea or suchlike
None of that showed up.

I watched the footage many times myself, admittedly its been a while since I last saw it and if memory doesn't fail me his knee was on the side of Floyd's neck and not the front.
Now I'm not encouraging you to harm yourself here, but take your hand and apply increasing pressure to the side of your neck. You'll find you probably do other damage before you come close to asphyxiation due to the musculature around that part of the throat
 
The Running Man said:
Well you would have thought that a movement as big as blm could appeal to anyone right, and say, look choose peace not drugs/war.

Maybe I'm just thinking its too simple but that is how these things go down.

Less crimes by proxy reduces the number of police interactions too..
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The reason for most criminal enterprise and the killings that occur amongst this lifestyle go hand in hand with the war on drugs. Prohibition didn't stop people drinking, it made underground criminal enterprize a thing. Like drinking people won't stop taking drugs. If you decriminalise and regulate it you remove nearly all of the criminal enterprize and killing associated with it.

Other than that there should be programs to get young people from disadvantage backgrounds into meaningful persuits
 
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