** Diablo 4 Thread **

[Tombstone]

It's not about companies we do and don't like, it's about whether there's enough incentive to re-run the campaign again every 3-4 months, in POE there clearly is, in D4 there clearly isn't.

Well the point that I was replying to was the need to start a character again to be a seasonal character instead of continuing with your normal character, (something by the way which I suspect you agree with me on) which is a fault of both Blizzard and GGG and so should be equally denounced, regardless of company involved. A wrong is a wrong, no matter who creates the wrong.

 

[Darujhistan]

Well the point that I was replying to was the need to start a character again to be a seasonal character instead of continuing with your normal character, (something by the way which I suspect you agree with me on) which is a fault of both Blizzard and GGG and so should be equally denounced, regardless of company involved. A wrong is a wrong, no matter who creates the wrong.

But I don't think having to start afresh in a seasonal ARPG is a bad thing per se. But, you should only have to level once per season, then be allotted say 85 skill points with a 2nd starting carachter.

That said POE'S campaign can be done in 4-5 hours (what's D4's? 50 hours?), but it's longer than that for many, yet people still got through it multiple times because the content is there.

Part of the problem D4 has, is that having a mass casual appeal has meant that many had no idea what they were getting into with a seasonal ARPG.

 

[Tombstone]

But I don't think having to start afresh in a seasonal ARPG is a bad thing per se. But, you should only have to level once per season, then be allotted say 85 skill points with a 2nd starting carachter.

That said POE'S campaign can be done in 4-5 hours (what's D4's? 50 hours?), but it's longer than that for many, yet people still got through it multiple times because the content is there.

Part of the problem D4 has, is that having a mass casual appeal has meant that many had no idea what they were getting into with a seasonal ARPG.

Ok, so to be clear for me and everyone else reading, in essence you think that having to start a new character each season, instead of using your existing character (which was the crux of what Smokey and Jay were saying earlier, about not being able to use their existing characters and having to make a seasonal one instead), is actually ok, as long as you only have to level up on the new character once per season? That having to have a seperate character instead of your "main" is ok?

Just so everyone is clear on your viewpoint. If thats your view, fair enough, everyone is entitled to a viewpoint, just trying to nail down in my head whether you are pro having to have a seperate character or against

 

[Smokey Deza]

Not just Blizzard, in Path of Exile if you want to do the seasonal league you also have to make a new character, so to extend the logic, its also Grinding Gear Games and their crappy donkey carrot gaming model

Thing is POE and the like they can do what they want, like Riot in a state of perpetuity with their new content spam. Whatever, it's free, you can't complain.

Of course, this ain't free. And sidelining characters people have invested a lot of time and effort in because Blizzard wants to play metrics by emulating FP2 riff-raff, diminishing or outright killing our gaming experience in the process, is simply unacceptable.

 

[DanF]

Diablo 3 has had the same setup for the last what 8 years?, it's not really about ftp

Seasons without starting fresh is pretty much pointless really, half the fun is the levelling with a new mechanism and class rebalances

Want long lived characters play in the normal perpetual server, want a fresh start and something fun to play with start in season

 

[Tombstone]

Thing is POE and the like they can do what they want, like Riot in a state of perpetuity with their new content spam. Whatever, it's free, you can't complain.

Of course, this ain't free. And sidelining characters people have invested a lot of time and effort in because Blizzard wants to play metrics by emulating FP2 riff-raff, diminishing or outright killing our gaming experience in the process, is simply unacceptable.

Does that mean that if Blizzard had made Diablo 4 free, you would be ok with having to start a new character each season?

Again, as with my above post, merely trying to get a grasp of what is considered ok for folk. Always good to know what peoples viewpoint is

 

[Smokey Deza]

Sure. We paid a fair chunk of change for this and now we're expected to jump through FP2 hoops?

 

[Darujhistan]

Ok, so to be clear for me and everyone else reading, in essence you think that having to start a new character each season, instead of using your existing character (which was the crux of what Smokey and Jay were saying earlier, about not being able to use their existing characters and having to make a seasonal one instead), is actually ok, as long as you only have to level up on the new character once per season? That having to have a seperate character instead of your "main" is ok?

Just so everyone is clear on your viewpoint. If thats your view, fair enough, everyone is entitled to a viewpoint, just trying to nail down in my head whether you are pro having to have a seperate character or against

My view is outlined above.

I'll add this as well from DanF.

"half the fun is the levelling with a new mechanism and class rebalances

Want long lived characters play in the normal perpetual server, want a fresh start and something fun to play with start in season"


Plus, it's not a bad idea to introduce the new mechanic early in the campaign.

At the moment, one one hand you have a short campaign leading to a fully fleshed out end game, and on the other a long campaign leading to very little.

So it's not a straight good/bad thing IMO, you've got to add nuance to it.

If D4 wanted to be seasonal then it needed much more content on release at end game, here's another thing "casual" gamers, (I hate that phrase as well) and newcomers to the genre wre always definitely going to think "wtf?" when asked to do a long campaign all over again. This was flagged up all over the place pre-launch.

 

[Tombstone]

Sure. We paid a fair chunk of change for this and now we're expected to jump through FP2 hoops?

Ok, so your issue isnt the mechanic itself (having to make a seasonal character and then not being able to play with nonseasonal characters) , its having that mechanic whilst it also not being F2P game. Ok, I misunderstood you then as I thought it was the mechanic you were against as a concept, rather than its method of implementation

 

[Tombstone]

My view is outlined above.

I'll add this as well.

"half the fun is the levelling with a new mechanism and class rebalances

Want long lived characters play in the normal perpetual server, want a fresh start and something fun to play with start in season"


Plus, it's not a bad idea to introduce the new mechanic early in the campaign.

At the moment, one one hand you have a short campaign leading to a fully fleshed out end game, and on the other a long campaign leading to very little.

So it's not a straight good/bad thing IMO, you've got to add nuance to it.

As with my above post to Smokey, I understand now that you are not against the mechanic of having to have new characters each season but the method of implementation. Good, its clear now what your viewpoint is. Thanks for the clarification. Always good for future reference to know how people stand about things.

 

[DanF]

Last Epoch is a full price game, it's going to have seasons once it hits 1.0 and comes out of pre-release
Grim Dawn is a full price game, doesn't have seasons but some people in the community literally added in their own season content with new changes and leaderboards etc

D2 resurrected, paid, has seasons
D3, paid, has seasons for ages, maybe not on launch

 

[Darujhistan]

As with my above post to Smokey, I understand now that you are not against the mechanic of having to have new characters each season but the method of implementation. Good, its clear now what your viewpoint is. Thanks for the clarification. Always good for future reference to know how people stand about things.

Here's what I added after you replied:

If D4 wanted to be seasonal then it needed much more content on release at end game, here's another thing "casual" gamers, (I hate that phrase as well) and newcomers to the genre wre always definitely going to think "wtf?" when asked to do a long campaign all over again. This was flagged up all over the place pre-launch.

Also:

D4 has failed to satisfy, either large crowd, casual/newcomers or hardcore ARPG'ers. But this what huge devs do, they want to hit every audience, tickbox as many genre's as possible (why was this tagged an MMO?) and ends up with a bit of a mess satisfying very few.

A long open beta like LE, might have been better, but their devs haven't tried to entice everyone to play, but struck a balance instead, they most definitely haven't tried to launch a "POE killer" becuase it's impossible to launch a game to beat POE at what POE has been designed to be over 10 years.

I think the sheer scale of Blizz etc is why smaller teams tend to produce better more focussed games, you can see that model all over the high street as well, it's focussed niche businessses that now tend to thrive where the larger "buy everything here" dept stores are disapearing fast. It's not hit food, because food is an almost daily neccesity sector.

 

[Darujhistan]

Last Epoch is a full price game, it's going to have seasons once it hits 1.0 and comes out of pre-release
Grim Dawn is a full price game, doesn't have seasons but some people in the community literally added in their own season content with new changes and leaderboards etc

D2 resurrected, paid, has seasons
D3, paid, has seasons for ages, maybe not on launch

It is a full priced game, but it's only £30. That's a big differecne from D4. Faced with the two options I bought LE.

GD is a fantastic game that deserved a far bigger audience than what it ended up with.

 

[Tombstone]

It is a full priced game, but it's only £30. That's a big differecne from D4. Faced with the two options I bought LE.

GD is a fantastic game that deserved a far bigger audience that what it ended up with.

GD is an extremely good game, the best ARPG out there imo (as I've said a few times). I've had plenty of fun in D4 though so I cant say that I regret buying it, but as I've also said many times I'm more tolerant and less prone to pram throwing than many so I'm easier to please

Really would love a GD2 though, heres hoping !

 

[Darujhistan]

GD is an extremely good game, the best ARPG out there imo (as I've said a few times). I've had plenty of fun in D4 though so I cant say that I regret buying it, but as I've also said many times I'm more tolerant and less prone to pram throwing than many so I'm easier to please

Really would love a GD2 though, heres hoping !

I think everyone's had their "money's worth" out of D4, that's just not a metric I value, sounds a bit too much like "player engagement" to me, but I can't tell people they haven't had fun either, that's just stupid. I think you have to seperate "value" from critique good or bad, they're two different concepts. If you look at the money D4 has made it's been an incredible financial success, it was always going to be, as a creative entity, less so.

I don't think there's been too much "pram throwing" about D4 really, people are frustrated, the devs seem all over place which doesn't help and the game has fundamental problems. Look at CP2077 people allowed themsleves to get carried away, CDPR fed it, and it took 2 years to fix, NMS again same thing, though I cut them some slack as they were a boutique dev team, whose lead was clearly not the right person to do the marketing.

Yes, I would love to see GD2 as well.

 

[Tombstone]

I think everyone's had their "money's worth" out of D4, that's just not a metric I value, sounds a bit too much like "player engagement" to me, but I can't tell people they haven't had fun either, that's just stupid. I think you have to seperate "value" from critique good or bad, they're two different concepts. If you look at the money D4 has made it's been an incredible financial success, it was always going to be, as a creative entity, less so.

I don't think there's been too much "pram throwing" about D4 really, people are frustrated, the devs seem all over place which doesn't help and the game has fundamental problems. Look at CP2077 people allowed themsleves to get carried away, CDPR fed it, and it took 2 years to fix, NMS again same thing, though I cut them some slack as they were a boutique dev team, whose lead was clearly not the right person to do the marketing.

Yes, I would love to see GD2 as well.

When I talk about pram throwing I'm being a little more general, not specific about D4, I just see a lot of pram throwing about video games and all I can ever think is "its just a computer game, nothing more", I've got games that I thought were pants but I just move on to the next game, its nothing for me to get intensely wound up about and rant about the game/devs til the apocalypse. In the grand scheme of life, its trivial whether a computer game is good, bad or average. Not worth me getting het up about but then, as I say, there isnt much in life thats worth me getting het up about, I'm normally rather tolerant of stuff.

 

[Yrkoon]

woohooo citsalp and vive got me through the cap stone to wt3 then citsalp helped me through a helltide and i got a ton of upgrades

my rogue is doing a lot more damage now etc and im surviving my first nm dungeon with it.

thanks guys

edit: first nightmare dungeon done solo, the gear i got earlier when i hit wt3 really transformed my rogue

 

[xaldub]

woohooo citsalp and vive got me through the cap stone to wt3 then citsalp helped me through a helltide and i got a ton of upgrades

my rogue is doing a lot more damage now etc and im surviving my first nm dungeon with it.

thanks guys

edit: first nightmare dungeon done solo, the gear i got earlier when i hit wt3 really transformed my rogue

What build are you running ? I'm finding there is still a big descrepancy between ranged & melee builds.

 

[Mull3t]

What's everyones recommendations for levelling 80-100? What are you running/repeating? I see comments online about running certain NM dungeons but if I'm right there's no specific way to guarantee a sigil for those dungeons?

 

[xaldub]

What's everyones recommendations for levelling 80-100? What are you running/repeating? I see comments online about running certain NM dungeons but if I'm right there's no specific way to guarantee a sigil for those dungeons?

Craft sigils to try and get the dungeons/affixes you want.