Diplomatic Immunity

Caporegime
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We can only say without a doubt she left, but as we are in the dark over certain aspects of it, we have no idea what lead her to make the decision to leave.

Doesn't really matter that we don't know her exact reasons the overall reason is simply avoiding justice and that is pretty scummy of her.

That is indeed a strong suggestion and I am not disputing what that leads towards. Only that without evidence to confirm it otherwise, would be a bit too soon to jump on it as irrefutable evidence and so free reign for us to dog pile onto.

I'd disagree there - it seems pretty obvious it was invoked early on tbh.. given that she wasn't arrested.

If this was a person employed not by the secret/security services, this I can definitely agree with. Being moralistic over the matter is more of your own choice. But as the husband is employed by the US secret services, it's not a simple matter of being moral.

It is, that is what it comes down to - she chose to flee, she lacked the moral courage to stay. She didn't have to follow the advise of the US embassy after they provided and easy escape for her.

As an active officer, the husband could do just as much damage; Either because he feels the US government didn't help him enough over his wifes situation, or because the wife becomes compromised and thereby compromising the officer themselves (either case is possible). Neither situation is desirable for the US, on the intelligence front, or any military front either.

That doesn't make much sense - the reason for having some level of immunity is likely due to the nature of his work possibly involving breaking laws etc... as motioned earlier it was rather over zealous of the US not to waiver it in this instance and/or possibly rather weak of the UK to go along with agreeing she had immunity. A high ranking US military officer wouldn't necessarily enjoy the same immunity nor his spouse.

In short, wait for more info before throwing names, labels and claiming how they lack of courage or moral, etc. This is of course, over the situation that she's not in the UK, not the accident itself, to which again I say is not in question and not unfair to comment on. Only the rest afterwards where its all vague that we should hold off from dog piling onto for now, as we could be just as unfair as how we are perceiving them to be.

There isn't any more info required to make the assertions I've made or to hold the opinion I've given - I don't doubt that something like this does put a strain on things, affect family life, affect someone's career - that applies to anyone who kills someone on the road - it isn't a legit excuse for running away. just because she can. IMHO she has a lack of moral courage and has done something rather **** that she should be utterly ashamed of on top of being a complete idiot in the first place by driving on the wrong side of the road - I don't need loads more specific details to draw that conclusion, we have enough information about the case already to make that conclusion. The facts speak for themselves, she killed someone in an accident that was quite blatantly her fault then ran away after saying she had no plans to leave, there isn't really anything that can excuse that.
 
Caporegime
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We can't wait for more information because she ****** off and prejudiced the investigation. I'm glad that it's established that i or anyone can just run away from crimes now when it suits.

All the family has left is revenge and it's her bloody fault for forcing that.

Guaranteed Anne Sacoolas will be in witness protection for the rest of her life. That's all the poor kids parents can hope for now. They should tour all over America and let everyone know! Seems they are already doing the US talk shows
 
Caporegime
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Honestly they should just go on as many shows as possible, write a book or whatever and flat out say she did it... over... and over. Until she's forced to sue for slander. Then they can get their justice one way or another, this also pretty much ends her husbands career, far too much heat.

Either she's damaged permanently from this or forced to court and looking like a selfish coward.

I hope the parents put all their energy into revenge.
 
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Having her in the next room was pretty sick, I have to say i am deeply unimpressed how they all behaved. It makes me worry about thier attitude about a trade deal. They basically gave us two fingers and expect her to take paper money for the dead son.
 
Soldato
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Honestly they should just go on as many shows as possible, write a book or whatever and flat out say she did it... over... and over. Until she's forced to sue for slander. Then they can get their justice one way or another, this also pretty much ends her husbands career, far too much heat.

Either she's damaged permanently from this or forced to court and looking like a selfish coward.

I hope the parents put all their energy into revenge.

Do you pay attention to anything? It's already been stated in the thread that she literally may have not had a choice about leaving the UK as the US Govt/NSA may have just pulled her and the family out of the UK. Yet you're still calling her a selfish coward. I think in your mind she deliberately and maliciously drove over someone, flaunted her diplomatic immunity to get away with it then jumped on the first plane out, when that is literally not what happened at all.
 
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It might help their cause if she removed her abundant facial jewellery, and didn't go dressed like an East End pub landlady, and he as if he were about to go for a Saturday lunchtime pint with his mates, when meeting the President of the United States. I cannot help feeling this woman is somewhat reveling in the media attention, and perhaps for quite the wrong reasons. Their solicitor doesn't look much better...
 
Caporegime
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Do you pay attention to anything? It's already been stated in the thread that she literally may have not had a choice about leaving the UK as the US Govt/NSA may have just pulled her and the family out of the UK. Yet you're still calling her a selfish coward. I think in your mind she deliberately and maliciously drove over someone, flaunted her diplomatic immunity to get away with it then jumped on the first plane out, when that is literally not what happened at all.

Don't care, if someone killed my son, it'd be my life mission to destroy the culprit.
 
Associate
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Doesn't really matter that we don't know her exact reasons the overall reason is simply avoiding justice and that is pretty scummy of her.

Again, you have made an assertion that she "willfully and maliciously" evaded justice. With the information on hand, this can't be proven either way.

I'd disagree there - it seems pretty obvious it was invoked early on tbh.. given that she wasn't arrested.

Unless you were the attenting Police or have access to the report files relating to this case which shows you what transpired and who did what, and when or who brought up the DI, and whether the Police Unit let them head back because they knew about the base or for other reasons. It's all rather speculative. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but lack of proof to back your view up is still suposition only. Granted it's the most likely outcome, but still suposition, so needs facts and information to back up, to which we don't have.

It is, that is what it comes down to - she chose to flee, she lacked the moral courage to stay. She didn't have to follow the advise of the US embassy after they provided and easy escape for her.

You have eqauted to her departure as to her "fleeing" (willfully and consciously decided to in an attempt to evade the UK Justice System), which is easy to say. But hard to prove. Again, I'm not rubbishing your claim, since that's the same conclusion I would come to with available information, but at no point will I make that known and stand behind it unless I have more solid evidence that would point to that. To which we do not.

That doesn't make much sense - the reason for having some level of immunity is likely due to the nature of his work possibly involving breaking laws etc... as motioned earlier it was rather over zealous of the US not to waiver it in this instance and/or possibly rather weak of the UK to go along with agreeing she had immunity. A high ranking US military officer wouldn't necessarily enjoy the same immunity nor his spouse.

A high ranking military officer doesn't necessarily have access to the vast myriad of information and tools on how the backbone of the US Intelligence networks function. Or that this agent may actually be running a high security clearance operation that impacts all aspects of the US defence network as well as its allies, thereby the US Gov needing to pull a runner like this over allowing them to be further explored. This is all speculation so that's all it really is, but with regards to the US being rather over zealous, and the UK not doing enough. That's how these two parties roll unfortunately. People tend to forget how "non-freedomlike" our govs are actually like (worse than the so called "bad" countries we hear of, like China or Russia, etc) when it comes down to certain parts of them (secrecy, intelligence and security) and think the person can "lone-wolf" it and use the moral guidance to guide them to do the right thing. Again, Snowden comes to mind (who has also done a runner and also decided they had the right "moral courage"). You don't want to get on the bad side of the dark side of the "Free Western World"; it's just as scary if not more so.

There isn't any more info required to make the assertions I've made or to hold the opinion I've given - I don't doubt that something like this does put a strain on things, affect family life, affect someone's career - that applies to anyone who kills someone on the road - it isn't a legit excuse for running away. just because she can. IMHO she has a lack of moral courage and has done something rather **** that she should be utterly ashamed of on top of being a complete idiot in the first place by driving on the wrong side of the road - I don't need loads more specific details to draw that conclusion, we have enough information about the case already to make that conclusion. The facts speak for themselves, she killed someone in an accident that was quite blatantly her fault then ran away after saying she had no plans to leave, there isn't really anything that can excuse that.

You keep bringing up moral courage, but again, moral courage is entirely perspective based. It may be that to her, the moral courage to accept that she'd face this backlack forever more so that she has the moral courage to keep the US and its operations safe that guard and protect the lives of (the unknowing number of) thousands that would otherwise be lost if she stayed and exploration into her husbands work is exposed. That is also moral courage to "do the right thing", through doing a "bad act" (of legging it) to get a "better outcome". Who decides this moral courage is the right one? Snowden is an example of having "moral courage" to do what is right, but is isn't all seen this way either by everyone.

Also, you keep jumping back to the death itself, to which "no one" is arguing against, not even them (the woman, the husband or the US Gov). That issue is separate to calling them something which you have no solid proof to back up on and THAT is what I am calling for calm over. There's plenty of time in the future to call her whatever if proven true or enough information comes out, but if there isn't, you may be calling someone who actually has the most "moral courage" by leaving (and living with consequences), something they may not don't deserve to be name called over just because they are looking at the big picture. (Again Snowden, right or wrong for having the "moral courage" to do what was right?)

Anyway, I'm not tredding on anything new now (and just repeating quite a bit) so I'll excuse myself from this thread until something relevant to the situation comes up. :)
 
Caporegime
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Again, you have made an assertion that she "willfully and maliciously" evaded justice. With the information on hand, this can't be proven either way.

You don't need to make up quotes - we know for a fact that she ran away...


You have eqauted to her departure as to her "fleeing" (willfully and consciously decided to in an attempt to evade the UK Justice System), which is easy to say. But hard to prove.

No it isn't, it is fact. They can't just kidnap her, she's an adult, she chose to leave, she could choose to come back...

You keep bringing up moral courage, but again, moral courage is entirely perspective based. It may be that to her, the moral courage to accept that she'd face this backlack forever more so that she has the moral courage to keep the US and its operations safe that guard and protect the lives of (the unknowing number of) thousands that would otherwise be lost if she stayed and exploration into her husbands work is exposed.

This has got nothing to do with her husband's work - it was an accident on the road, she's already been named - if anything her fleeing has drawn more attendant to both her and her husband and turned it into an international news story. The crash is being investigated regardless.

That is also moral courage to "do the right thing", through doing a "bad act" (of legging it) to get a "better outcome". Who decides this moral courage is the right one? Snowden is an example of having "moral courage" to do what is right, but is isn't all seen this way either by everyone.

You've put in a lot of waffle to try and come up with some convoluted and frankly spurious and vague reasoning to try and argue that there is some reasonable excuse for this behaviour other than simply her taking the easy way out because she can... there isn't, her identity has already been revealed, there is more attention focused on this case now as a result of her actions.

She killed someone and fled, that we already know - you've not been able to justify it and as for your apparent appeal for "calm" - that makes no sense at all, we're just people posting on an Internet forum, AFAIK no one here is personally affected nor is anyone not being calm - you're talking about opinions that's all...
 
Caporegime
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That is indeed a strong suggestion and I am not disputing what that leads towards. Only that without evidence to confirm it otherwise, would be a bit too soon to jump on it as irrefutable evidence and so free reign for us to dog pile onto.

Well yeah we could bend over backwards trying to find some impossible level of evidence against her, or we could just use a level of common sense and work on the facts at hand.
 
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Assuming her side of the story is correct and she suffered a momentary lapse of concentration then what sort of sentence was she realistically looking at?

Personally I think she would have got a lengthy driving ban, some community service and probably a suspended sentence.

Which to me doesn't seem worth causing an international incident over. Very odd situation she was probably advised very poorly and I hope this follows her round like a bad smell for the rest of her life
 
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Well yeah we could bend over backwards trying to find some impossible level of evidence against her, or we could just use a level of common sense and work on the facts at hand.

Actually, all we need is the still unreleased information that is held by the Police and the Foreign Department (which the family themselves haven't seen yet). All we need from that is a time frame of "what happened and when" on their side, and that will set things straight as to what transpired (who brought up DI is the primary info we want to know whether she willfully abused DI, or whether DI was thrown on her and she and her family pulled out by the US Gov). Until then, anything so far is all rather circumspect since there's no official release of such information that I am aware of and most reported things have been what little they have been given so far, which often has flip-flopped on what has transpired. And that's why I said lets wait for more info (that will be forthcoming) rather than dog piling on them and accusing and calling them names they may not deserve. There's no need to bend over backwards trying to find something impossible as the info is already there, just unreleased so far.
 
Caporegime
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Actually, all we need is the still unreleased information that is held by the Police and the Foreign Department (which the family themselves haven't seen yet). All we need from that is a time frame of "what happened and when" on their side, and that will set things straight as to what transpired (who brought up DI is the primary info we want to know whether she willfully abused DI, or whether DI was thrown on her and she and her family pulled out by the US Gov). Until then, anything so far is all rather circumspect since there's no official release of such information that I am aware of and most reported things have been what little they have been given so far, which often has flip-flopped on what has transpired. And that's why I said lets wait for more info (that will be forthcoming) rather than dog piling on them and accusing and calling them names they may not deserve. There's no need to bend over backwards trying to find something impossible as the info is already there, just unreleased so far.

It's an ongoing investigation precisely because she fled, so I doubt they're going to release that evidence to the public at this stage...

We might as well just close the thread if we can't make any judgements on the evidence available to us.
 
Soldato
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“On today’s Jerry Springer Donald Trump show we have 2 grieving parents who son was run over by someone not paying attention and then was repatriated to avoid justice. They’ve come here to tell me all about it, but first we’ve got the woman who killed their son - Anna Sacoolas waiting another room, so let’s bring her out here!!!

DONALD! DONALD! DONALD!”
 
Caporegime
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“On today’s Jerry Springer Donald Trump show we have 2 grieving parents who son was run over by someone not paying attention and then was repatriated to avoid justice. They’ve come here to tell me all about it, but first we’ve got the woman who killed their son - Anna Sacoolas waiting another room, so let’s bring her out here!!!

DONALD! DONALD! DONALD!”
That's a pretty hot take right there, and I would watch this episodic TV show.
 
Soldato
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She also kinda made a mistake by flying home, since you don't have diplomatic immunity in your own country. She should have faced the music. It probably would have been a driving ban, now it will be more serious if they do get the US to ship her back. Plus being hounded by the press.
 
Soldato
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tbh I really don’t see why “getting justice” helps the parents in any way let alone why anyone in this thread has strong feelings about what should”ve/could happen to Anna Sacoolas

How does it help?? Brings closure??

It changes f all
 
Last edited:
Soldato
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tbh I really don’t see why “getting justice” helps the parents in any way let alone why anyone in this thread has strong feelings about what should”ve/could happen to Anna Sacoolas

How does it help?? Brings closure??

It changes f all
Would you agree someone involved in a hit and run that’s causes someone’s death should be held accountable for their actions?
 
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