DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

TheRealDeal · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:30

Gregster said:
I did ask earlier but not sure if it got missed or nobody knows...

"Why would we need a new GPU for DX12? What makes the current cards incapable of running DX12"

I would rather hang onto my Titans for a couple of years to be honest but if it does need a new GPU to run DX12, I will get one (or 2).

Edit:

The same goes for Mantle... Could Mantle not be optimised to run on 6 series cards?

It's always been the case that a new dx requires new hardware to fully support it. They usually add in new features that are not fully supported on current hardware. If this happens with dx12 then you won't have a dx12 card. I think it's also the case that Nv and Amd might like this fact as people will run out to get a card that supports the latest features.

Gregster · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:32

TheRealDeal said:
It's always been the case that a new dx requires new hardware to fully support it. They usually add in new features that are not fully supported on current hardware. If this happens with dx12 then you won't have a dx12 card. I think it's also the case that Nv and Amd might like this fact as people will run out to get a card that supports the latest features.

Possibly and can see the reasoning that both GPU manu's would want us to upgrade but everything should be on a GPU already to run DX12/Mantle/OGL and should not need to buy to take advantage. Well, that is how I see it but maybe something is missing.

TheRealDeal · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:49

Gregster said:
Possibly and can see the reasoning that both GPU manu's would want us to upgrade but everything should be on a GPU already to run DX12/Mantle/OGL and should not need to buy to take advantage. Well, that is how I see it but maybe something is missing.

That won't be the case if Microsoft add in new features that your current card does not support just like when tesselation was added in.

MyBrainz · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:54

TheRealDeal said:
That won't be the case if Microsoft add in new features that your current card does not support just like when tesselation was added in.

Thats ok.. greg said he'd buy new cards if needed anyway

Gregster · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:55

MyBrains said:
Thats ok.. greg said he'd buy new cards if needed anyway

Well, I think we all would eventually but I would rather hang onto my dinosaurs for a little longer.

MyBrainz · 9 Mar 2014 at 12:59

Ah yea ur Titanasaurus's

My 7950 is still going strong

Rusty0611 · 9 Mar 2014 at 13:34

Steampunk said:
By selectively quoting what I wrote, and not what I was replying to, you completely changed the message.

I was replying in the same tone, manner, and words to indicate what I thought of the reply. It's called "a taste of your own medicine". I did the same to you. Seems it all went over your head.

You're completely missing the point of what I was illustrating.

The message wasn't changed at all. You said UE4 was ages away. I then linked this to the other point you were making at another person showing that you were doing the same thing.

So again, no. Stop arguing for the sake of it.

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 13:35

Some features require fundamental hardware changes which aren't possible on old cards. Shader technology on DX10 cards cannot produce tessellation as a recent example. Just as some of the features in Mantle aren't possible on cards prior to GCN

Steampunk · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:03

Rusty0611 said:
You're completely missing the point of what I was illustrating.

The message wasn't changed at all. You said UE4 was ages away. I then linked this to the other point you were making at another person showing that you were doing the same thing.

There's a big difference between saying "AMD will never release a Mantle SDK" and "UE4 is a way off and devs are still using UE3". I'm happy to be corrected that there's a UE4 game on the way soon, and some more before the end of the year. I like UE games, and have played them for years, since it was just Unreal.

UE4 arriving also has no bearing on the release of a Mantle SDK. Maybe you should go back and see who brought up UE 3/4 and in what context?
It was Frostly complaining how UE3 wasn't worthy of Mantle support, but that ARMA was, and that somehow this was proof that there would never be a Mantle SDK released. I pointed out that UE3 was still in use.

Rusty0611 said:
So again, no. Stop arguing for the sake of it.

Thanks for telling me what and how I should post. That's always so useful on an internet forum. :rolleyes:

Rusty0611 · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:18

Steampunk said:
There's a big difference between saying "AMD will never release a Mantle SDK" and "UE4 is a way off and devs are still using UE3". I'm happy to be corrected that there's a UE4 game on the way soon, and some more before the end of the year. I like UE games, and have played them for years, since it was just Unreal.

UE4 arriving also has no bearing on the release of a Mantle SDK. Maybe you should go back and see who brought up UE 3/4 and in what context?
It was Frostly complaining how UE3 wasn't worthy of Mantle support, but that ARMA was, and that somehow this was proof that there would never be a Mantle SDK released. I pointed out that UE3 was still in use.

I have zero interest iin the original argument between yourself and Frosty - I was just pointing out your hypocrisy.

Steampunk said:
Thanks for telling me what and how I should post. That's always so useful on an internet forum.

I didn't say that. I said stop arguing for the sake of it. That still stands. Move on - I'm not going to change my mind on the matter.

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:19

It hasn't got anything to do with it? It was a separate point. There won't be a fully fledged public SDK. So stop your jabbering.

If you're so sure I'm wrong then you only have to wait, don't you.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/24495-amd-to-keep-mantle-sdk-private.html

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:20

How open can you go?

It's a nice sentiment, but does that mean AMD is willing to allow an entity traditionally viewed from behind enemy lines make use of Mantle?

"It's hard to say," Hallock said. "If we want it to be an industry-wide API or inspire an industry-wide API, that would mean adoption from Nvidia in some way, shape or form. I can't speak from an architectural level what that would require of them to change."

Steampunk · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:26

MjFrosty said:
It hasn't got anything to do with it? It was a separate point. There won't be a fully fledged public SDK. So stop your jabbering.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/24495-amd-to-keep-mantle-sdk-private.html

From the site you quote:

"We have not set a final date for releasing a public SDK, but we will provide more information later in 2014."

That obviously doesn't say what you claim.

In fact, AMD representatives have stated there will be a public SDK. From September last year when Mantle was announced:

AMD’s Ritche Corpus said:
The plan is, long term, once we’ve developed Mantle into a state where it’s stable and in a state where it can be shared openly [we’ll make it available]. The long term plan is to share and create the spec and SDK and make it widely available. Our thinking is: there’s nothing that says that someone else could develop their own version of Mantle and mirror what we’ve done in how to access the lower levels of their own silicon. I think what it does is it forges the way, the easiest way.

You say I'm "jabbering" :rolleyes:

, but I'm just correcting your incorrect statements. You seem to have an agenda to keep insisting on things that are simply not true.

LtMatt · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:33

Steampunk said:
From the site you quote:

That obviously doesn't say what you claim.

In fact, AMD representatives have stated there will be a public SDK. From September last year when Mantle was announced:

You say I'm "jabbering" , but I'm just correcting your incorrect statements. You seem to have an agenda to keep insisting on things that are simply not true.

You're wasting your time with that one Steam. There will be a publicly available SDK though so you're correct.

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:38

It's all in black and white it's up to the ' enthusiasts' to read between the lines. Read the bumbling statement in my edit from Hallock.

Steampunk · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:41

MjFrosty said:
It's all in black and white it's up to the ' enthusiasts' to read between the lines.

So you're just making up what you want to see and claiming it as fact?

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:54

Nope. I just know full well in this industry when something is destined for mediocrity

Steampunk · 9 Mar 2014 at 14:58

MjFrosty said:
Read the bumbling statement in my edit from Hallock.

That's got nothing to do with the release of a SDK. Mantle becoming an industry supported API or going open sourced has nothing to do with a SDK being released. I'll ask you again, do you know what a SDK is? Do you know what it is for?

Many software products have SDKs. They don't have to be publicly available, they don't have to be open sourced or industry standard. DirectX is a good example of software that is not open sourced, that is only available to a select few people before it is fully released, and then has a SDK published for anyone to use if they want to. It's not even a standard outside of the Windows PC space. This is the exact same model that Mantle is following.

MyBrainz · 9 Mar 2014 at 15:06

Steampunk said:
That's got nothing to do with the release of a SDK. Mantle becoming an industry supported API or going open sourced has nothing to do with a SDK being released. I'll ask you again, do you know what a SDK is? Do you know what it is for?

Many software products have SDKs. They don't have to be publicly available, they don't have to be open sourced or industry standard. DirectX is a good example of software that is not open sourced, that is only available to a select few people before it is fully released, and then has a SDK published for anyone to use if they want to. It's not even a standard outside of the Windows PC space. This is the exact same model that Mantle is following.

I want the SDK released asap as then we will have Fraps.. OBS.. MSI Afterburner etc to be able to release updates that will enable us to record and monitor Mantle while gaming. Something i wish AMD had put together and released themselves so we can at least do these thing from the get go.

Silent_Scone · 9 Mar 2014 at 15:09

It has everything to do with it. You're being narrow sighted beyond AMD cards utilising it. Hence why tech report asked the question in the first place. Which rolls back to the very original point I made of allowing access to NV which got completely tumbled over by someone saying, most probably you, that developers had so much control with Mantle, which doesn't give other vendors any benefit.

Hallock is dancing around the question because politically it's blindingly obvious what the answer is, it's a political nightmare. But as usual the AMD ivory tower hypocrisy is giant when it comes to this entire subject.