Discussion On The ATI Radeon 5*** Series Before They Have Been Released Thread

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:37

I personally don't expect the 5870 to be faster or match the 295.

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:37

Final8y said:
That would be seen as cheating & i have not seen any suggestion that's what been going on.
The possibility & the likelihood are not the same thing.

Its not really cheating everyone sets up their config slightly differently like every idtech3 based game theres a mass of cvars that can increase or decrease quality or affect the method some stuff is run in... I'm not suggesting anyone deliberately skewing the results... just so happens that certain changes happen to make a big difference in which hardware it runs best on.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:40

Rroff said:
Its not really cheating everyone sets up their config slightly differently like every idtech3 based game theres a mass of cvars that can increase or decrease quality or affect the method some stuff is run in... I'm not suggesting anyone deliberately skewing the results... just so happens that certain changes happen to make a big difference in which hardware it runs best on.

Your not getting what im saying!
The fact all these things can be changed does not mean that they will be in official benches as that would null & void them.
If gamers thought that what you said was the norm in official benches then many games would not be in official benches at all.

mrk · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:43

A few Google searches brings GTX297 1795MB between £308 and £380 so a 5870 would have to be considerably less than that range....which it will!

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:43

Final8y said:
Your not getting what im saying!
The fact all these things can be changed does not mean that they will be in official benches as that would null & vold them.

Your not really comprehending what I'm saying either... COD4 isn't like 3D Marks 06 where theres an accepted benchmark defaults.

tdream · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:47

Final8y said:
I personally don't expect the 5870 to be faster or match the 295.

I expect the 295 to be faster without AA, with AA 5870 by a nose hair.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:47

Rroff said:
Your not really comprehending what I'm saying either... COD4 isn't like 3D Marks 06 where theres an accepted benchmark defaults.

I know it is not but we are taking about game benching not 3D mark as there was no mention of benchmark program in your comment prior.
What is acceptable are the main game menu settings.

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:49

There is no common benchmarking ground with COD4... you pretty much either have to set it up in a way thats more favorable to one side or the other - which is why you see so varied results.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:52

Rroff said:
There is no common benchmarking ground with COD4... you pretty much either have to set it up in a way thats more favorable to one side or the other - which is why you see so varied results.

I would have to strongly disagree .

AA, AF, Quality setting & res is all that is needed & as long as the function work on both makes & you do a run with varied degrees of the main menu setting on both cards. will give you the answer.

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:55

Just turning threading on or off depending on the configuration can dramatically swing which hardware it runs best on...............

gurusan · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:55

tbh all of these benchmarks mean nothing to me. Need to wait for proper reviews.

Although personally I would be surprised (pleasantly) if the 5870 beats a GTX 295.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:56

Rroff said:
Just turning threading on or off depending on the configuration can dramatically swing which hardware it runs best on...............

That why you bench with it on & off & show the results on both makes.

chuck990 · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:56

nutter said:
Im happy with those performances vs GTX 295 TBH. We was never expecting it to kill the GTX 295, being on par is more than enough for me, considering i had a hd 4890 in my mind for a system due to the price of a GTX 295 being outside my budget, the HD version will be DX11 and give same performance as a GTX 295, but at a much better price.

Whats to moan about?

?? thats a very defetest attitude! we want as much as we can have for as little as possible! complacancy is a waste od time

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 15:58

Final8y said:
That why you bench with it on & off & show the results on both makes.

You can do that for half a dozen other settings too many of which make no difference to teh visual quality but will dramatically change what hardware it runs best on... it gets a bit silly if you have to show 10 different benchmarks just to find a common ground.

Likewise its why I was never a fan of using doom3/idtech4 engine games for benchmark as that has even more vendor specific rendering routines.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:02

Rroff said:
You can do that for half a dozen other settings too many of which make no difference to teh visual quality but will dramatically change what hardware it runs best on... it gets a bit silly if you have to show 10 different benchmarks just to find a common ground.

That exactly what bench sites do.
Anyway it still does not matter as if a game is configured to the max for one make & then configured to the max for the other make with then the faster still wins away if the quality is equal or better.

Rroff · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:04

Final8y said:
That exactly what bench sites do.
Anyway it still does not matter as if a game if configured to the max for one make & then configured to the max for the other make with equal quality then the faster still wins away.

But you can never be sure that the benchmarker has done that or is even aware of that factor... idtech3 and engines built off it are a bit of a quicky beast even for someone like myself who knows the source inside out.

So as I said COD4 benchmarks don't really mean anything at all.

Raikiri · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:05

tdream said:
this graphs shows it's on equal pegging with the 295.

That graph shows it to be about 18% faster on average, which for a single card that should cost less, use less power, support DX11 etc. is very good.

nutter · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:08

chuck990 said:
?? thats a very defetest attitude! we want as much as we can have for as little as possible! complacancy is a waste od time

We as customers have a choice to buy or not, they will never give us more than we need at the time, because then people would not upgrade in future.

It's a fine line to tread, but considering these two companys make hundreds of millions a year, they obviously tread that fine line well!

We can always wait for Nvidia and they can charge £500 for a card.

As i say, if price is kept sensible, im more than happy to buy one.

Final8y · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:09

Rroff said:
But you can never be sure that the benchmarker has done that or is even aware of that factor... idtech3 and engines built off it are a bit of a quicky beast even for someone like myself who knows the source inside out.

So as I said COD4 benchmarks don't really mean anything at all.

You cant be sure of anything.
But COD4 does not alter non menu cvars by its self so it can only be intentional.
You have a right to not think nothing of Cod4 as bench mark as that your choice.

wellibob · 14 Sep 2009 at 16:14

ive never seen so much faff over a card series in my life. bring the damn card out already, then we can have some peace !