Do AMD provide any benefit to the retail GPU segment.

[humbug]

Its kind of sad,that because of what Nvidia is doing we have relatively small discounts on older generation dGPUs,which makes them look better.

We have the power to change that, we just have to be more stubborn than Jens, but are talking about someone who is pathological about setting this new normal.

And AMD are not in the clear with this, yes they have some strong offerings from the older generation but the $900 7800XT 7900XT was just as bad as Nvidia's 4080 12GB stunt.

Most of the 4000 series are sitting on shelves, for the first time in more than a decade AMD have an opportunity to stick it to Nvidia.

 

[Nexus18]

You do realise amd GPUs are also sitting on the shelf and haven't even registered on steam yet, need to stop drinking whatever Lisa is providing you

 

[humbug]

Learn from Ryzen.

First you have to gain the respect and mindshare by offering strong products at good value, take the margins hit to do that, then once you've pulled yourselves out of the rut that you're in and you're selling a lot more products than you used to, provided you're still making compelling products you can pull the margins up to something more sustainable.

Its not rocket science, you're done it before with resounding success.

 

[Nexus18]

Except amd aren't selling their GPUs for as low as what they did with the first couple of Ryzen launches..... When spending as much as what these GPUs are costing now, an extra hundred or so is nothing if it means getting a better overall package....

 

[humbug]

Also, bring back Robert Hallock, pay him whatever he wats. you can afford it now, make him the face of AMD. The man is a legend, you should never have let him walk, no matter what the cost.

 

[Joxeon]

So an RTX3070 8GB for RTX3070 8GB pricing?

A 50 quid discount I reckon.

 

[SpudMaster]

You do realise amd GPUs are also sitting on the shelf and haven't even registered on steam yet, need to stop drinking whatever Lisa is providing you

You also have to consider internet or gaming 'cafes' or whatever you want to call them. Those types of places almost exclusively use Nvidia gpus. When you think of the amount of people who will be logging in and getting prompted with the Steam survey the results are likely to be skewed somewhat

 

[Kirby Wurm]

Back to the original point of do AMD provide any value to the GPU segment? It barely appears that way. Nvidia do as they please, are selling at high prices and dominating market share. If AMD dropped out of the dGPU space would much change? I don't think so, Nvidia's strategy seems unaffected by what AMD do, and the latter seems happy to sell what they can without trying to disrupt the market because their primary income is elsewhere. They won't abandon the space, but it comes across as tertiary in their objectives.

It's not quite Intel in the 2010's because at least Nvidia have provided some typical improvements in performance at the top end, but below that there's rampant stagnation, at least where price/performance are concerned.

 

[Jono8]

Back to the original point of do AMD provide any value to the GPU segment? It barely appears that way. Nvidia do as they please, are selling at high prices and dominating market share. If AMD dropped out of the dGPU space would much change? I don't think so, Nvidia's strategy seems unaffected by what AMD do, and the latter seems happy to sell what they can without trying to disrupt the market because their primary income is elsewhere. They won't abandon the space, but it comes across as tertiary in their objectives.

It's not quite Intel in the 2010's because at least Nvidia have provided some typical improvements in performance at the top end, but below that there's rampant stagnation, at least where price/performance are concerned.

Yeh. AMD don't seem interested in grabbing market share. They have decent cards, but they are mostly pointless when all they do is slot them in at price points at almost exactly the price/performance of Nvidia's.

They just don't seem interested in shaking things up at all.

 

[Freddie1980]

Yeh. AMD don't seem interested in grabbing market share. They have decent cards, but they are mostly pointless when all they do is slot them in at price points at almost exactly the price/performance of Nvidia's.

They just don't seem interested in shaking things up at all.

At this point I would think the priority is to make money to keep the Radeon division a going concern so they can continue to develop graphic architures for their APU's to sell to Sony and Microsoft and other system builders. AMD always want to play it safe with graphics, people don't buy top end Radeon cards so they don't bother making a halo product and as they lack a halo product their always seen as 2nd best.

 

[Calin Banc]

At this point I would think the priority is to make money to keep the Radeon division a going concern so they can continue to develop graphic architures for their APU's to sell to Sony and Microsoft and other system builders. AMD always want to play it safe with graphics, people don't buy top end Radeon cards so they don't bother making a halo product and as they lack a halo product their always seen as 2nd best.

And yet they went with $1000 for 2 high end cards that won't sell much when gamers and not miners are concerned. Besides, I'm incline to think that Microsoft and Sony sponsor some of that development, so basically now and then get a lot of development for "free".

Nothing stopping AMD to try and make 6800xt/6900xt cards at around $350-$400 and enforce that price so they gain market share. Instead they went more or less for "halo" cards. Yes, not the best of that league, but still stuff which won't sell amazingly well. Simply put: they follow the market leader.

 

[humbug]

And yet they went with $1000 for 2 high end cards that won't sell much when gamers and not miners are concerned. Besides, I'm incline to think that Microsoft and Sony sponsor some of that development, so basically now and then get a lot of development for "free".

Nothing stopping AMD to try and make 6800xt/6900xt cards at around $350-$400 and enforce that price so they gain market share. Instead they went more or less for "halo" cards. Yes, not the best of that league, but still stuff which won't sell amazingly well. Simply put: they follow the market leader.

And how much for the RX 6600? $50?

 

[Calin Banc]

And how much for the RX 6600? $50?

You are right, they should still sell old stuff as expensive as possible, follow the leader, it knows best

 

[NZXT30]

Learn from Ryzen.

First you have to gain the respect and mindshare by offering strong products at good value, take the margins hit to do that, then once you've pulled yourselves out of the rut that you're in and you're selling a lot more products than you used to, provided you're still making compelling products you can pull the margins up to something more sustainable.

Its not rocket science, you're done it before with resounding success.

You're completely off the mark.

I bought the Ryzen 1700 for £300 when the nearest Intel competitor was £1000. The equivalent in current GPUs would be AMD selling the 4080 competitor which is the 7900XTX for £330. Even with those crazy favorable prices it took years for AMD to make a dent at Intel's marketshare and mindshare.

Whatever AMD is currently doing with it's GPUs has zero resemblance to what they did with Ryzen. With it's current strategy AMD is heading towards total eradication from the DGPU market.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

You're completely off the mark.

I bought the Ryzen 1700 for £300 when the nearest Intel competitor was £1000. The equivalent in current GPUs would be AMD selling the 4080 competitor which is the 7900XTX for £330. Even with those crazy favorable prices it took years for AMD to make a dent at Intel's marketshare and mindshare.

Whatever AMD is currently doing with it's GPUs has zero resemblance to what they did with Ryzen. With it's current strategy AMD is heading towards total eradication from the DGPU market.

But it is clear AMD has prioritised production of consoles and CPUs over dGPUs. You saw that by some of the numbers that got leaked out about 7NM wafer allocations during the pandemic. AMD dGPUs are easy to get in Western Europe and the US,but in many parts of the world it is much easier to find Nvidia products.

You can also see it this generation - there is more concentration on cutting production costs. AMD has access to the same TSMC 4N 5NM process as Nvidia but is using it for APUs:

The All-New Radeon 780M Is The Fastest iGPU! Ryzen 9 7940HS Hands On First Look

The all New AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS RDNA3 APU is crazy fast and in this video we test out the built in radeon 780M RDNA3 Based iGPU! The New AMD Ryzen RDNA3 APUs ...

www.youtube.com

This is an IGP which clocks upto 3GHZ in a TDP constrained environment. Navi 31 doesn't even have a big GCD and its made on bog standard TSMC 5NM(Nvidia uses TSMC 4N 5NM). Nvidia went for a 600+ MM2 top die dGPU,and AMD went for a mixed process node dGPU closer to 500MM2.Navi 33 looks like a slightly die shrunk Navi 23 made on an economy TSMC 6NM process. They are not using GDDR6X or stacked cache either.

The best we can hope for is that in the mainstream area they produce decent enough dGPUs to sort of keep Nvidia in check.

 

[humbug]

But it is clear AMD has prioritised production of consoles and CPUs over dGPUs. You saw that by some of the numbers that got leaked out about 7NM wafer allocations during the pandemic. AMD dGPUs are easy to get in Western Europe and the US,but in many parts of the world it is much easier to find Nvidia products.

You can also see it this generation - there is more concentration on cutting production costs. AMD has access to the same TSMC 4N 5NM process as Nvidia but is using it for APUs:

The All-New Radeon 780M Is The Fastest iGPU! Ryzen 9 7940HS Hands On First Look

The all New AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS RDNA3 APU is crazy fast and in this video we test out the built in radeon 780M RDNA3 Based iGPU! The New AMD Ryzen RDNA3 APUs ...

www.youtube.com

This is an IGP which clocks upto 3GHZ in a TDP constrained environment. Navi 31 doesn't even have a big GCD and its made on bog standard TSMC 5NM(Nvidia uses TSMC 4N 5NM). Nvidia went for a 600+ MM2 top die dGPU,and AMD went for a mixed process node dGPU closer to 500MM2.Navi 33 looks like a slightly die shrunk Navi 23 made on an economy TSMC 6NM process. They are not using GDDR6X or stacked cache either.

The best we can hope for is that in the mainstream area they produce decent enough dGPUs to sort of keep Nvidia in check.

Forza 5, 1080P high: Avrg 86 FPS.
Fortnight, 1080P medium: Avrg 78 FPS.
Doom Eternal, 1080P medium: Avrg 88 FPS.
Horizon Zero Dawn, 1080P performance mode: Avrg 68 FPS.
COD MW2, 1080P recommended settings: Avrg 106 FPS.
CP 2077, 1080P Low - Med: 60 to 75 FPS.

That's Stonking for an iGPU, that will give an RTX 3050 a run for its money.

 

[JediFragger]

COD MW2, 1080P recommended settings: Avrg 106 FPS.

This uses FSR Performance btw, so 640p render??

 

[humbug]

This uses FSR Performance btw, so 640p render??

Ignore that then and look at the rest.

I know Forza 5 well, at 1440P high i get about 90 FPS, with an RTX 2070 Super, not a slow GPU.

 

[humbug]

This is with everything running Ultra, 1440P, this video exists to demonstrate what happens when you use Ultra settings on an 8GB card, the textures go very muddy on the road and are missing entirely from some of the LOD foliage.

RTX 2070 Super.

60, at 1080P high that thing is averaging near 90.

 

[Calin Banc]

But it is clear AMD has prioritised production of consoles and CPUs over dGPUs. You saw that by some of the numbers that got leaked out about 7NM wafer allocations during the pandemic. AMD dGPUs are easy to get in Western Europe and the US,but in many parts of the world it is much easier to find Nvidia products.

You can also see it this generation - there is more concentration on cutting production costs. AMD has access to the same TSMC 4N 5NM process as Nvidia but is using it for APUs:

The All-New Radeon 780M Is The Fastest iGPU! Ryzen 9 7940HS Hands On First Look

The all New AMD Ryzen 9 7940HS RDNA3 APU is crazy fast and in this video we test out the built in radeon 780M RDNA3 Based iGPU! The New AMD Ryzen RDNA3 APUs ...

www.youtube.com

This is an IGP which clocks upto 3GHZ in a TDP constrained environment. Navi 31 doesn't even have a big GCD and its made on bog standard TSMC 5NM(Nvidia uses TSMC 4N 5NM). Nvidia went for a 600+ MM2 top die dGPU,and AMD went for a mixed process node dGPU closer to 500MM2.Navi 33 looks like a slightly die shrunk Navi 23 made on an economy TSMC 6NM process. They are not using GDDR6X or stacked cache either.

The best we can hope for is that in the mainstream area they produce decent enough dGPUs to sort of keep Nvidia in check.

Most likely they're having a significant stock to move as well, so won't happen too soon.I've seen even some some rx580 for sale still...

On the CPU side a 5800x3d fell to about €320 from near 500 mark (position now taken by 7800x3d) in a store near me. 5800x is around €250 from around €400. But those most likely didn't have huge stocks.

But, since is too much to ask for at least 6800xt performance at $400 a few years and one gen later (apparently only Nvidia is to be blame for trying to get high profitd), I wouldn't expect miracles. After all, I think 7900xt went backwards in price/performance upon launch.