Poll: Do you think AMD will be able to compete with Nvidia again during the next few years?

[Bazzards]

Key phrase is "unseen". Why render something that you cannot see?

 

[Gerard]

Key phrase is "unseen". Why render something that you cannot see?

Its one of those trade-offs i suppose, if you don't render something that's behind something else you can get issues with it "popping in" from certain angles, and in some cases where you should be able to see it you can't. Can see that kind of thing in War Thunder quite a lot and it can end with you getting destroyed by enemies you couldn't see. Presumably cards are more accurate at this than game engines, though i suppose its still a possibility.

 

[Panos]

Thank you for the insight, @Panos, really helpful. I hope more members read this and make conclusions about which purchase is the better.

Now, I think I understand why the RX 580 is so much faster than a 1060 in the beta of Battlefield 5 - both cards have to render the same objects.

Hence that comment under the article itself: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/amd_obliterates_nvidia_in_early_battlefield_5_benchmarks/1

If remember correctly the case on FFXIV was similar, yes? AMD was rendering more than the NV card.

Which is the same case in Time Spy also with the Graphic Test 2. And is known since 2016 that Nvidia is cutting graphic rendering due to it's separate execution path in the benchmark.
And this explains why on Graphic Test 1 a Vega 64 @ 1742 has the same perf at a GTX1080 @ 2190 and all the performance tanks by 12% on Test 2.

 

[Panos]

Its one of those trade-offs i suppose, if you don't render something that's behind something else you can get issues with it "popping in" from certain angles, and in some cases where you should be able to see it you can't. Can see that kind of thing in War Thunder quite a lot and it can end with you getting destroyed by enemies you couldn't see.

Damn you. And thought I was getting better at spotting these days at WOT....

 

[Gerard]

Damn you. And thought I was getting better at spotting these days at WOT....

In war thunder it might be an engine thing, i'm not 100% sure but i have seen instances where i driven out from behind a house and an enemy tank just pops into view. You can see it in this video, a tank suddenly is about half way in front of the other tank, its more noticeable in slow mo but noticeable regular speed as well.

I'm guessing this is engine related but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if a gpu removing stuff you cant see could also exhibit this.

 

[D.P.]

In war thunder it might be an engine thing, i'm not 100% sure but i have seen instances where i driven out from behind a house and an enemy tank just pops into view. You can see it in this video, a tank suddenly is about half way in front of the other tank, its more noticeable in slow mo but noticeable regular speed as well.

I'm guessing this is engine related but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if a gpu removing stuff you cant see could also exhibit this.

That is almost certainly the game engine

 

[4K8KW10]

Just sounds like you have some settings worng.

Post some screen shots.

No, you must show us how you control the tree leaves via the control panel. I call it impossible.

 

[Ian Evey]

I not disagreeing with you! But am sure the same was said about Intel vs AMD couple years ago.
In tech anything is possible! AMD just need to release a decent GPU and they right back in the mix of things. The hardware though isn't AMDs biggest issue its mind share! Even if AMD released tomorrow a kick arse GPU smashing the 1080Ti people will still find away to tell people to buy a Ti!

I still see this every day when people asking about Ryzen vs Intel.

No, if Amd released a 1080ti beater for similar money nearly everyone would buy it.

 

[4K8KW10]

No, if Amd released a 1080ti beater for similar money nearly everyone would buy it.

How will you force the trolls to buy AMD product when the only thing they see is GeForce?! You can't tell them that their GTX 1080Ti lacks full quality 3D rendering and thus, they have to take the superior VEGA 64.

 

[Ian Evey]

How will you force the trolls to buy AMD product when the only thing they see is GeForce?! You can't tell them that their GTX 1080Ti lacks full quality 3D rendering and thus, they have to take the superior VEGA 64.

If Amd released a 1080ti beater no one would Need forcing in to buying it.
As for the rendering thing who knows, but I am sure the pro Amd tech sites and you tubers would be screaming from the rooftops if it were a fact, btw BFV is an alpha game so we have to wait a year or so before we can see which cards have better performance.

 

[Ian Evey]

Double post

 

[humbug]

I switched last week from 1080Ti to V64. After clearing cache and settings, went to play World of Tanks with everything on max.
My first observation was that all trees and bushes looked thicker, with more foliage to the point it was difficult to aim from, yet very beautiful to look at.
Then on the Overlord map, was stunned to see a big thick black smoke on the horizon, like dozens of oil tankers were on fire literally. While on Paris map, the thousands of small windows mirroring draw my attention for first time because it pop out

I thought probably wrong, went to the laptop (GTX1060 6gb) and run the game with maxed out settings and went to the training mode.
The bushes and trees on same places as above, had half the foliage. While that smoke described above was more likely that someone set a car on fire, not ships burning at the landing of Normandie. As for Paris the mirrors look washed out, not reflecting the light and scene around them.

True the fps on the V64 is less by around 60 (110 over 170-175), but the game details are far better.
Added bonus now, is that I do not have tearing (freesync monitor) half way across the scene. Something that annoyed me with the 1080Ti and the inability to cap the fps in the driver settings.

It has to be said i have noticed a bit of this too with nVidia vs AMD GPU's, personally the visual impact of this is not that bothersome for me, maybe i'm now used to it, but nVidia are defiantly playing some LOD tricks and with that some of it is a little disruptive to immersion, when you see medium distant objects haze fade in and out and you know that is not the engine.

Having said that AMD also use driver hacks for Tessellation LOD, but at least AMD appear to leave the environment content and quality as the developer intended it, nVidia don't.

 

[4K8KW10]

If Amd released a 1080ti beater no one would Need forcing in to buying it.
As for the rendering thing who knows, but I am sure the pro Amd tech sites and you tubers would be screaming from the rooftops if it were a fact, btw BFV is an alpha game so we have to wait a year or so before we can see which cards have better performance.

We just spent half of this thread and countless posts on other threads to explain that AMD needs something more than "1080ti beater" in the FPS metric, in order to change the perception of the market.
I am not aware of which sites are "Pro-AMD" but as you can see we here tell you that something is going on.
Why do you want a confirmation from other sides, as well?

I would be happy to escalate the thing to AMD and AMD's marketing, so they start to point this quality thing in their presentations' slides when releasing new products.

It has to be said i have noticed a bit of this too with nVidia vs AMD GPU's, personally the visual impact of this is not that bothersome for me, maybe i'm now used to it, but nVidia are defiantly playing some LOD tricks and with that some of it is a little disruptive to immersion, when you see medium distant objects haze fade in and out and you know that is not the engine.

Having said that AMD also use driver hacks for Tessellation LOD, but at least AMD appear to leave the environment content and quality as the developer intended it, nVidia don't.

Is there difference between Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias set to Allow and Clamp?

 

[humbug]

We just spent half of this thread and countless posts on other threads to explain that AMD needs something more than "1080ti beater" in the FPS metric, in order to change the perception of the market.
I am not aware of which sites are "Pro-AMD" but as you can see we here tell you that something is going on.
Why do you want a confirmation from other sides, as well?

I would be happy to escalate the thing to AMD and AMD's marketing, so they start to point this quality thing in their presentations' slides when releasing new products.



Is there difference between Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias set to Allow and Clamp?

I don't know, i have never tested it.

 

[ltron]

We just spent half of this thread and countless posts on other threads to explain that AMD needs something more than "1080ti beater" in the FPS metric, in order to change the perception of the market.
I am not aware of which sites are "Pro-AMD" but as you can see we here tell you that something is going on.
Why do you want a confirmation from other sides, as well?

I would be happy to escalate the thing to AMD and AMD's marketing, so they start to point this quality thing in their presentations' slides when releasing new products.



Is there difference between Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias set to Allow and Clamp?

Adjusting the negative LOD bias has no effect since Fermi according to Nvidia's release notes.

It might be texture filtering quality causing the issue as I noticed graphical glitches when using High Quality in BF1 which were most obvious in the campaign mission where you fly above the snowy mountain, there were lines in the snow and rendering artifacts which disappeared when using Quality (I have confirmed this on a friend's PC too). Despite reporting the issue to Nvidia and EA over a year ago it still hasn't been fixed. Maybe a similar thing is happening in this case.

 

[LePhuronn]

Voted "No, NVIDIA have too much of a lead to overcome"

AMD are just too far behind imo...

In pure numbers, Vega 56 usually beats the 1070, Vega 64 usually beats the 1080. The only thing AMD can't touch is the Ti. They're not that far behind, but it will probably take a herculean effort to bridge that gap. We'll see what happens with Navi I guess.

 

[4K8KW10]

If Amd released a 1080ti beater no one would Need forcing in to buying it.
As for the rendering thing who knows, but I am sure the pro Amd tech sites and you tubers would be screaming from the rooftops if it were a fact, btw BFV is an alpha game so we have to wait a year or so before we can see which cards have better performance.

Look carefully at the tree tops which you can see from time to time.

If you google, you will find threads, actually, with many posters saying the same thing.
But the conclusion comes from this thread: https://community.amd.com/thread/183563

NVIDIA uses a lot of compression techniques. If you notice on their newer cards, they reserve a half a gig leaving you 3.5 gig. This is reserved so they can store compressed textures and colors. After all the compression the end result is a washed out/blurry look.

You make an excellent point about nVidia and its use of compression, but also nVidia "optimizes" everything even today for frame rate performance above every other consideration--I've seen the same "washed out" effects on other systems so I know what you mean. nVidia is a benchmark company, you might say, and hinges its entire marketing effort around frame-rate benchmarks in 3d games. It's been my experience with nVidia since '02 that the company cares far less about image quality than it does about frame-rates, and I think that is what lies behind this phenomenon. For example--the company fought against FSAA publicly for a couple of *years* post R300 from ATi--the ArtX design ATi bought that changed everything about 3d gaming, imo.

It isn't to say the screaming isn't there. It is there

 

[humbug]

In pure numbers, Vega 56 usually beats the 1070, Vega 64 usually beats the 1080. The only thing AMD can't touch is the Ti. They're not that far behind, but it will probably take a herculean effort to bridge that gap. We'll see what happens with Navi I guess.

I'd say they are with in a few % of eachother, Vega 56 maybe slightly faster than the 1070, under 5%.

As for the 1080TI, its seen as this fantastical gaming monster, its a powerful GPU but its only 30% faster than the 1080, thats significant but not huge, the difference between the 1060 and the 1070 is near 40%

 

[humbug]

Look carefully at the tree tops which you can see from time to time.

If you google, you will find threads, actually, with many posters saying the same thing.
But the conclusion comes from this thread: https://community.amd.com/thread/183563





It isn't to say the screaming isn't there. It is there

Its subtle, you can only really see it when there is a high contrast of colour and light, but there is defiantly a difference.

 

[D.P.]

Look carefully at the tree tops which you can see from time to time.

If you google, you will find threads, actually, with many posters saying the same thing.
But the conclusion comes from this thread: https://community.amd.com/thread/183563





It isn't to say the screaming isn't there. It is there

This is BS. Nvidia's compression is lossless.

And if there was lossy compression then you wont see washed out colours, there will be color artifacts and banding etc. The "washed out" image quality, is just
Nvidia's choice of not pushing the saturation and contrast to the limits like TVs in showrooms. A few minutes setting vibrance in the settings and it will match AMD