Does anyone vote BNP if so why

The Running Man · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:14

sure

http://www.bnp.org.uk/policies.html#economy

We further believe that British industry, commerce, land and other economic and natural assets belong in the final analysis to the British nation and people. To that end we will restore our economy and land to British ownership.

hmm, isnt that what happened in zimbabwe that had muchos public outcry? and why we didnt play cricket with them?

We will take active steps to break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants

arent they actually super competative causing prices to decrease, or increase at less than the current rate of inflation, with firms of this size they can definately benefit from purchasing economies of scale where they buy more = cheaper cost = lower price = more competative (hence why bread is cheaper at yer tesco rather than yer local shop.

the BNP calls for the selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports

i dont think many of our foreign tarde counterparts will like this, and may boycott our produce, vastly limiting our exports?

We will ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers. When this is done, unemployment in this country will be brought to an end,

i dont think we can create all of our own products, nor do i believe that this will cause an end of unemployment. prices will skyrocket due to the increased costs/innefficiences and will lead to a massive blackmarket (even larger than the current) and will thus result in less tax for the goverment to spend on all the other wonderful policies

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:20

Originally posted by phykell
No problem, but could you use the conventional quote system as it made for some extra work to reply to this...

okey dokey I'll try

[Why on Earth would you think that? Do you really believe their past beliefs have nothing to do with their current politics? And it's not about portrayal, it's about facts. There is plenty of evidence which is freely available, to show what the BNP is all about, and recent evidence too. The Panorama investigation showed that all too well. Still, if you want to judge a party simply by what its website's front page says conveniently forgetting the very roots of the party and what it stands for, then I suppose it's your problem.[/B]

I do not believe that they have completely changed I just dont think that they are as bad as they were. I am not judging them by there front page but I am prepared to give them a chance the same as all other parties. You yourself seem to have delved a lot deeper than me into there past and ways and that is the information on which you are saying that they are rascist and they would never gain youre vote.

I have delved and read quite a bit deeper than there front page but have not yet discounted them from gaining my vote.

also it aint my problem mate the word you were looking for there was CHOICE.

[You accept that they are only "above board" on what you read at face value, and then you expect me to condone them because other parties also have their hidden agendas. What is it you want me to say? That they're not that bad after all just because other parties are bad also? No, the truth is that the BNP are the most dangerous party out there, with simple manifesto policies designed to hide their true nature. No matter how bad the other parties are, they have not been linked to violence and inciting racial hatred and I think I'd be wasting my time if I tried to explain just why the BNP is so beneath contempt because there is plenty of evidence freely available as I've already said. But that's not your point is it? You have read the front page, you've even delved deeper and found reasons for concern yet you still talk as though they are a viable alternative. They're not and if you don't understand that based on what you've read, you are probably beyond my ability to convince you otherwise.[/B]

I'm not beyond anything mate but as yet you have not posted any information to the contrary I have said i have delved deeper but as stated in the above paragraph I do not think I have delved as deep as you. So if you want to post the information or links I really would like to have a look.

My simple point is that on what I have read and seen I would still consider voting for them. This may well change because of this thread or when in the next round of elections I find out who I can / cant vote for in my constituiency and then I'll go off and delve deeper before deciding who I will vote for.

[That isn't the issue I'm afraid and I have to say that your reasoning is very weak. To imply that Labour's policy of equal rights is racist in the same way as the BNP is racist is ridiculous (sorry but that's my opinion). I'm not saying that Labour is right in enforcing such a policy, but as I say, there is simply no comparison with the kind of racial policies the BNP would wish to enforce like preventing mixed-race marriages. [/B]

That aint no policy of equal rights mate. By the definition of giving preference to people from ethnic minorities flys straight in the face of equal rights.

I am not saying whether labour is as rascist as you percieve the BNP I was simply pointing out that by definition the Labour party are also rascist due to the policies they have implemented.

And I have also stated above (although I appreciate you may have been replying to me and not have read that post yet) that I am against there policy to prevent mixed race marriages. However on the whole I am for more of there policies than some of the other political parties.

I'm not blind phykell I know a bit about the past exploits of the BNP but as yet I am unwilling to discount them from gaining my vote.

EDIT: got the quote thing to work finally. although i am unsure s to why i have the [ and /B at the end of each one oh well you get the idea.

The Running Man · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:24

by awarding these contracts simply on the basis of who gives the cheapest quotes is shortsighted in my view as the impact on the british economy

surely the competition will (or should) lead to british firms striving for efficiency so that they CAn compete, why should the goverment only open the contracts up to british businesses when a better job can be done cheaper elsewhere, surely this would result in the british firms becoming even MORE innefficient because they wont have anyone to compete with!

more employment possible, but it would mean spiralling costs to do these projects upgrades, which may result in them not happening, due to the cost, oe fewer being done, or higher taxes to pay for them

one example i will give is from my organisational behaviour txt book i was reading last week:

some firms R+D department had very high costs and low efficiency, etc etc

SO, the firm started to utilise other R+D firms instead of their own because it was cheaper. this forced the R+D dept to become more effiecient to become competative with other R+D costs, and in the long run vastly inceased the efficiency, and they opened the R+D dept up to OTHER firms to use because they were so cheap, and thus derived income (profits$$$) from other firms who chose to use the cheapest R+D place.

so what im saying is if the contract is gifted to a firm they will remain a blood sucker from the gov't forever, whereas if they are exposed to competition they will be forced to strive for efficiency, and it may result in the english firms winning contracts from german firms, benefitting our economy greatly...

phykell · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:24

Originally posted by memphisto there policy on mixed marriages i disagree with however that is only one policy out of most of them on there.

So if that particular policy was murdering every 7th son of a 7th son (or any other arbitrarily outrageous and immoral act), you wouldn't mind 'cos it's only one of their policies and you agree with all the rest?

Madness. If you can't judge the BNP's true agenda for the UK by even that one policy, then I despair. Read the way it's worded for or with respect, are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of the argument? Apologies if you're not, I just think you're deliberately not seeing the issue, or is it that we are just in such fundamental disagreement?

Originally posted by memphisto
I do not support labours stance on

Euro
The Use of Spin
Transport
Taxes
Asylum
Criminals

the list goes on and on.

...but I agree with you now

Originally posted by memphisto All I am saying is that of all parties the BNP have the most appealing policies to me whether they appear unworkable or not. If they manage half of what they say on some policies then they will have done a good job in my view.

What, despite the other intolerable policies they would try and implement? What exactly is your threshold? I tell you now, I would rather have a Government 10x as bad as Labour (the Conservatives probably

) than the BNP and that one policy on mixed-race relationships.

Shall I simplify?

They hate people of mixed race. They don't care whether or not that child or adult had a choice in the matter. As far as they are concerned, any person of mixed race is an aberration. Tell me you find this acceptable and I will stop discussing this with you right now!

Originally posted by memphisto This isnt saying i will or wont vote for them but the blanket refusal of most people to even consider them and then call them rascist scum is to me wrong.

I won't ever consider them because of the facist, racist, bigoted ideals they are founded on. If you think that's wrong then I can't help you.

Originally posted by memphisto SOme of you arguing on here have had a look at the BNP and have said that in your opinion that they are not the party for you and also you dont think they are the party for the country. Some of us think differently than you that does in no way mean we are wrong, it just means we have different opinions than yourselves.

So you won't object if they get into power and build on their mixed-race policy. Do you honestly think they'll stop there? Do you?

Originally posted by memphisto You term them as rascists yet refuse (as none has commented on my post yet on page 6) to also deem labour as a rascist party eventhough they could easily be considered so.

Well hopefully my previous post has dealt with that. Anyway, it's not like it's just me terming them racists. There are plenty of others who have examined and studied the BNP in great detail who are more qualified to call them racist. Read the Q&A that I provided on the mixed-race policy - that could be the rant of a KKK Grand-Wizard.

Originally posted by memphisto As I have said under there leadership we have seen the introduction of policies in certain sectors which mean that a certain percentage of all jobs must be occupied by those form ethnic minorities. This is not a case of best person for the job but simple discrimination against those who are not from ethnic minorities, hence rascist.

There are scales you know, and the whole point of that policy (no matter how misguided in my opinion) is to try and integrate sections of our community. In some sectors it may be valid such as in the Police force, where it can be shown to be important to have racial representation in positions of authority. But that's another argument... Anyway, as I said earlier, there is absolutely no comparison with even one of the BNP's racist policies such as the mixed-race one.

[/B][/QUOTE]By this the party has implemented rascist policies already within Britain. To not acknowledge the fact that the current ruling party could be deemed as rascist then accuse the BNP as being rascist scum to me is ironic. [/B][/QUOTE]
Please, there's just no comparison. Anyway, there you go again, don't you know two wrongs don't make a right? It's not as if the Labour party having its own questionable policies makes the openly racist policies of the BNP acceptable is it?

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:26

Originally posted by CaPtBlaCk
, unless of course you are racist?

damn thats it !

:rolleyes:

I'm not.

CaPtBlaCk · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:26

Originally posted by memphisto

I'm not blind phykell I know a bit about the past exploits of the BNP but as yet I am unwilling to discount them from gaining my vote.

Of course you cannot discount them yet, after all there is no proof that the BNP have connections with the far right, Nick Griffin was never a member of the NF and Mark Collet is just showing youthful bravado when he jokes about those lovable Nazis.......

CaPtBlaCk · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:30

Originally posted by memphisto
damn thats it !

I'm not.

Then naive and ignorant it is then, your being 'hoodwinked', smarten up before it's too late!!

Just one quick question, have you discussed your thoughts with your peers or family. Do they share your views?

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:36

Originally posted by phykell
So if that particular policy was murdering every 7th son of a 7th son (or any other arbitrarily outrageous and immoral act), you wouldn't mind 'cos it's only one of their policies and you agree with all the rest?

Is it not accpeted that you vote for the party that has the most policies that appeal to you ?

If they tried to implement the policy on mixed marriages there aare certain policies etc already in place to stop things such as this happening. For example I can quite easily see this be thrown out at the earliest oppurtuniy. The bill wouldnt even get through parliament never mind the house of lords.

The point is that although some of there policies are rascist (ie the mixed marriage one) they would never be implemented there are already preventitive measures in place to stop things like that happening.

Madness. If you can't judge the BNP's true agenda for the UK by even that one policy, then I despair. Read the way it's worded for or with respect, are you being deliberately obtuse for the sake of the argument? Apologies if you're not, I just think you're deliberately not seeing the issue, or is it that we are just in such fundamental disagreement?[/B]

again it is a case of do I believe that that would ever come into practice ? NO it will never ever happen not even if they got in power.

They hate people of mixed race. They don't care whether or not that child or adult had a choice in the matter. As far as they are concerned, any person of mixed race is an aberration. Tell me you find this acceptable and I will stop discussing this with you right now![/B]

no i dont

So you won't object if they get into power and build on their mixed-race policy. Do you honestly think they'll stop there? Do you?[/B]

It wouldnt ever happen

There are scales you know, and the whole point of that policy (no matter how misguided in my opinion) is to try and integrate sections of our community. In some sectors it may be valid such as in the Police force, where it can be shown to be important to have racial representation in positions of authority. But that's another argument... Anyway, as I said earlier, there is absolutely no comparison with even one of the BNP's racist policies such as the mixed-race one.[/B]

but would you deem labour rascist ? there may well be (in your view)a different level of rasicism within the BNP. But do you consider labour a rascist party ?

clv101 · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:42

Why do people feel they need to state they aren't racist? It's kinda a pointless comment since no one ever says they are racist.

All we have are people who say they aren't and people who don't say either way - this tells us nothing.

There are lots of racist people and just looking at the statistics of it there are likely to be some racist people in here. Will they own up though?

Anyway what's the definition of racist?

- Believing that races differ from each other.

- Believing that races differ from each other in important ways, like intelligence or physical abilities.

- Believing that races differ from each other in important ways, like intelligence or physical abilities, for genetic reasons rather than because of cultural or environmental circumstances.

- Believing that because of such differences, members of different races should have different political rights.

- Believing that a particular group of people who are racially different are also different in their culture.

- Believing that a particular group of people who are racially different are also different in their culture, for genetic rather than historically contingent reasons.

- Not liking the different culture associated with a different race and wanting that culture changed, opposed, corrected, or confronted.

- Because of believing that a member of a different race is likely to be different in a particular way, believing that this particular member of the different race is himself likely to be different in this particular way.

- Believing that this particular member of a different race is different in this way, even when you have got to know him individually and know that it isn't so.

- Believing that all the members of a particular race should be murdered.

According to some definitions of "racist" almost everybody is racist, while according to other definitions, hardly anyone is.

Taken from here: http://www.samizdata.net/blog/archives/000374.html

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:43

Originally posted by CaPtBlaCk

Just one quick question, have you discussed your thoughts with your peers or family. Do they share your views?

what has that got to do with the price of cheese ?

I have discussed it at length on here pre nuke, have discussed it with my friends and my family to an extent.

Most of those do not likeyerself agree with the views of the BNP and of my own but so what ?

I dont understand yer point really to be fair ? What if they do not share my views ? are you suggesting that I should just throw all my ideals and beliefs out the window because others do not agree with them ?

phykell · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:45

Originally posted by memphisto I do not believe that they have completely changed I just dont think that they are as bad as they were. [/B]

Ah right, so they're not quite the openly baseball wielding thugs they were, with links to Combat 18 etc. So now I should be prepared to judge them anew...

Originally posted by memphisto I am not judging them by there front page but I am prepared to give them a chance the same as all other parties. You yourself seem to have delved a lot deeper than me into there past and ways and that is the information on which you are saying that they are rascist and they would never gain youre vote. [/B]

I hate to keep saying this, but doesn't the fact they they don't approve of mixed-race relationships ring any bells?

Originally posted by memphisto I have delved and read quite a bit deeper than there front page but have not yet discounted them from gaining my vote.[/B]

I hardly had to delve deep. They are racist. I find this despicable and intolerable. What do you think?

Originally posted by memphisto also it aint my problem mate the word you were looking for there was CHOICE.[/B]

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance."

Originally posted by memphisto My simple point is that on what I have read and seen I would still consider voting for them. This may well change because of this thread or when in the next round of elections I find out who I can / cant vote for in my constituiency and then I'll go off and delve deeper before deciding who I will vote for. [/B]

I don't think I can offer anything more then.

Originally posted by memphisto That aint no policy of equal rights mate. By the definition of giving preference to people from ethnic minorities flys straight in the face of equal rights. [/B]

I'm not going to argue that point as you should have realised from what I've said so far, that I'm not exactly in agreement with Labour over such policies either.

Originally posted by memphisto I am not saying whether labour is as rascist as you percieve the BNP I was simply pointing out that by definition the Labour party are also rascist due to the policies they have implemented. [/B]

...and that still has absolutley no bearing on the fact that the BNP are racist and much more so than the Labour party.

Originally posted by memphisto And I have also stated above (although I appreciate you may have been replying to me and not have read that post yet) that I am against there policy to prevent mixed race marriages. However on the whole I am for more of there policies than some of the other political parties. [/B]

Don't you see though, that their policy on mixed race relationships is fundamental to the BNP's beliefs and ideals? If you disagree with that it'd be like a Conservative supporter believing in fair taxation for all

Originally posted by memphisto I'm not blind phykell I know a bit about the past exploits of the BNP but as yet I am unwilling to discount them from gaining my vote.[/B]

Well I wonder what exactly it will take? Perhaps the problem is simply one of perspective. You've already admitted that you are not a racist (at least you had the guts to say one way or the other unlike some other people) so can you at least put yourself in the shoes of ethnic minorities that are already settled here. There are people who have lived in the UK all their lives who are genuinely scared of the BNP's continued growth and acceptance and the only reason they are scared is because they aren't white. Do you think that's acceptable? Where exactly are the BNP going to draw the line when it comes to asking people to resettle in the "lands of their origin"? 1st generation, 2nd generation? There are people who are long-standing members of this forum who have an ethnic background, some may be the product of mixed-race relationships. What will you say to them? How will you justify your "choice" to them when you are effectively saying you are willing to consider supporting a party that would wish to send them packing?

Originally posted by memphisto EDIT: got the quote thing to work finally. although i am unsure s to why i have the [ and /B at the end of each one oh well you get the idea. [/B]

k

Unfortunately I won't be able to reply until tomorrow afternoon now, so until then...

Pez · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:48

I must say that I agree with the target the BNP are trying to hit, they just dont seem to be going about achieving it in the right way.

phykell · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:51

Originally posted by Pezboy
I must say that I agree with the target the BNP are trying to hit, they just dont seem to be going about achieving it in the right way.

Sorry, had to reply to this one.

What do you mean exactly? Do you agree with their fundamentally racist stance or just their manifesto policies consisting of unattainable goals?

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:52

I personally do not think anyone who came to this country legally thorugh immigration or whatever should ever have to leave.

Those that should in my opinion are those that came here illegally.

On top of this I also feel that those who are grantded asylum should have to return to there home country when there is no longer a threat on there lives.

clv101 · 10 Mar 2003 at 00:58

Originally posted by memphisto
On top of this I also feel that those who are grantded asylum should have to return to there home country when there is no longer a threat on there lives.

Why? One of my mates father came here as an asylum seeker in the '60s, he's now a well regarded and respected GP. Should he be sent back to a country he has very little connection with now? What about his wife? His son?

What would this achieve?

JAzz · 10 Mar 2003 at 01:01

Originally posted by memphisto
I personally do not think anyone who came to this country legally thorugh immigration or whatever should ever have to leave.

Those that should in my opinion are those that came here illegally.

On top of this I also feel that those who are grantded asylum should have to return to there home country when there is no longer a threat on there lives.

yes but looking at bnps policies they seem to want everyone who immigrated in out.

Also if a person came in illegally then became illegal do u think they should be thrown out? Im not supporting illegal immigrants or anything but u have to understand they aint here to suck u dry they are here to help out their families who are poor.

Many of the immigrants are skilled workers and we should be taking advantage of that, many of them work in the building trade and are quite skilled seeing as no one wants to do more physical work like building surely they should be kept in as they are needed.

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 01:02

Originally posted by clv101
Why? One of my mates father came here as an asylum seeker in the '60s, he's now a well regarded and respected GP. Should he be sent back to a country he has very little connection with now? What about his wife? His son?

What would this achieve?

he's no longer an asylum seeker then is he ?

He is now a british citizen. (assuming he married a british lady).

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 01:06

Originally posted by Jazz
yes but looking at bnps policies they seem to want everyone who immigrated in out.

Also if a person came in illegally then became illegal do u think they should be thrown out? Im not supporting illegal immigrants or anything but u have to understand they aint here to suck u dry they are here to help out their families who are poor.

Many of the immigrants are skilled workers and we should be taking advantage of that, many of them work in the building trade and are quite skilled seeing as no one wants to do more physical work like building surely they should be kept in as they are needed.

If a person comes into the country illegally I do think they should be thrown own out.

However if they come here legally though the propoer immigration channels then they should be welcomed with open arms.

If an asylum seeker is truely in need then he / she should be welcomed with open arms.

Those that come here illegally or bougusly should be shown the door ASAP.

As for an illegal immigrant becoming legal (assumingit was a typo when you put "Also if a person came in illegally then became illegal" )

I can only really think of one way this would happen and that is by marrying a british citizen ? I may be worng and probably am but if there are ways where they gain legal immigration status through having necessary skills etc etc. I really dont have much of a problem against that either.

CaPtBlaCk · 10 Mar 2003 at 01:07

Originally posted by memphisto
what has that got to do with the price of cheese ?

I have discussed it at length on here pre nuke, have discussed it with my friends and my family to an extent.

Most of those do not likeyerself agree with the views of the BNP and of my own but so what ?

I dont understand yer point really to be fair ? What if they do not share my views ? are you suggesting that I should just throw all my ideals and beliefs out the window because others do not agree with them ?

I was asking purely from the point of view that it is easy to state your beliefs here and not so in the 'Real World'.

I am also confused now as to your views, ideals and beliefs? Will you support the BNP given the chance, do you deny their far right connections, does it matter that the leader of the party was a member of the National Front, or does that get balanced by the fact that you consider the Labour party racist?

In fact is your whole point based on this ridiculous excuse?

As for ‘so what’, the party you are possibly offering support for could have a direct impact on me and my family. For this matter alone I will do what ever it takes to keep the BNP and it's supporters from spreading their diseased politics.

I have read through this thread many times and have yet to be offered a valid, sound reason to support the BNP. I have neither been offered any reasoning behind their politics or ‘hidden agenda’ except for puerile excuses and moans at the current state of politics in this country. The ‘protest vote’ argument does not stand up, vote Green if your that bothered, but vote BNP, then expect to be called RACIST and learn to live with it because that’s what you will be, protest vote or not!!!

memphisto · 10 Mar 2003 at 01:11

Originally posted by CaPtBlaCk
I was asking purely from the point of view that it is easy to state your beliefs here and not so in the 'Real World'.

I am also confused now as to your views, ideals and beliefs? Will you support the BNP given the chance, do you deny their far right connections, does it matter that the leader of the party was a member of the National Front, or does that get balanced by the fact that you consider the Labour party racist?

In fact is your whole point based on this ridiculous excuse?

As for ‘so what’, the party you are possibly offering support for could have a direct impact on me and my family. For this matter alone I will do what ever it takes to keep the BNP and it's supporters from spreading their diseased politics.

I have read through this thread many times and have yet to be offered a valid, sound reason to support the BNP. I have neither been offered any reasoning behind their politics or ‘hidden agenda’ except for puerile excuses and moans at the current state of politics in this country. The ‘protest vote’ argument does not stand up, vote Green if your that bothered, but vote BNP, then expect to be called RACIST and learn to live with it because that’s what you will be, protest vote or not!!!

I really dont know what to say.

and thats not a slant on you just I really dont know how to answer that (at least in any new way).