Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? **Spoilers**

[Robbo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/03/anderson-manchester-united-players-want-out_n_4716173.html

From what some would say was utd's best midfielder, i jest

He's saying that his words have been twisted, which does seem to be the case.

*snip*

Most of your points are fair, and I agree with both sides of the argument for him going and staying, but my analysis of the man himself and his idea of what's good enough is what concerns me greatly. I'm not sure he's got what it takes to fight for trophies or even top four now. We're basically having to hope rather than expect.

 

[Robbo]

Shame Vidic is leaving but he's not the player he once was. I don't think it's down to Moyes at all.

Jones and Evans would make a decent enough (but not amazing) partnership, but my issue with Jones is that he's very reckless and gets himself injured a lot. He can't be relied upon unless he sorts this out. Smalling is too much of a headless chicken for my liking as a defender, I can't see him being the answer, though he's had the odd decent game at CB.

So players leaving/likely to be leaving are:

Vidic (obviously)
Evra
Rio
Giggs
Nani
Anderson
Maybe Kagawa but he does seem keen to stay

Most of them aren't a great loss, but we need world class (or close to) replacements, and then have the likes of Cleverley/Young as squad players, we can't get rid of everyone at once.

We're in for one hell of a summer, I hope Moyes has a lot of targets in mind, not just go for Vidal, Dante and then buy nobody.

The summer will make or break him, clubs aren't going to be keen to sell to us either so we're going to be paying premium prices, and without Champions League football, premium contracts for the players in question.

It's exciting but also worrying.

 

[Robbo]

While we don't want this to be a club thread, I don't think it's bad to have it. Otherwise people just wouldn't talk to each other... which might be for the best, I don't know.

 

[Robbo]

Tim Howard having a bit of a pop at Moyes here?

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...-howard-praises-everton-boss-roberto-martinez

 

[Robbo]

So guys can we just wrap this thread up asap? Moyes is and was the wrong choice. Don't let your pride get in the way here. We need to unite and get him out before it's too late.

That's not for you to decide. The fact a lot more people want him to be given more time puts you in the minority on here at least.

Laudrup caretaker to the end of the year

Hmmm no.

 

[Robbo]

Think the question united fans and the board need to ask themselves is;

"Can we afford 2-3 seasons out the CL?"

If the answers is they can afford and cope with this then keep him Ashe will probably eventually come good and be a good manger. If the answer is no and they need to be in the CL then they need rid ASAP as he isn't getting them in the CL this season and I would highly doubt he will for another 2-3 after this one.

Much of that depends on the players he can get in the summer. The summer transfer window is going to be an absolute nightmare for us, we're going to be after a fair few players, most likely at clubs who aren't too keen to sell. No Champions League football will be a blow when it comes to attracting players, but not a deal breaker for most I imagine. It's not just the midfield that sucks now either, we need a few defenders as well.

I think our financial model can cope with 1 or 2 seasons out of the top 4. 3 seasons would be a big concern, because a lot of money will be spent during that time and certainly enough that 4th place should be at least guaranteed. As for actually winning things, that'll depend on how the new players settle, and whether or not the manager can make the relevant tactical decisions.

Hopefully the big turnaround and when the team actually start playing properly will start this afternoon. I hope it's not more of the same rubbish we've been subjected to on the pitch for most of the season so far.

 

[Robbo]

442 rolled out again tonight?

I don't think that's the problem, it's just general poor play. Man City haven't done too badly with 442.

 

[Robbo]

I simply don't understand Moyes' obsession with crossing. I get crossing, if you have players who can cross, and good players in the box who can head the ball, likely beating the defenders (you can flash it across the goal too which would be better, but most were in the air). RvP has good movement but isn't going to get above a 6'4 centre back with ease. Even if your game is built around crossing, you have to try other things too.

Our players are barely shooting or trying any creative passes, it's all wide > cross > wide > cross, all down the same side of the pitch too.

Moyes has to take the blame for this at least. If we're keeping him and have to play this way, why the hell did he buy Mata?! Fellaini as a striker makes more sense.

Depressing. His post match interview likely praising our incredible amount of crosses isn't going to help either.

 

[Robbo]

Via the BBC:

Al from Streatham: To those calling for Moyes's head - Liverpool fans were saying the same last season, now look at them. Managers need time. If someone could walk into a team and win everything,

I can't say I noticed that about Rodgers, but Moyes has done only one thing tactically all season and it has never worked (unless the opposition fell apart for whatever reason).

We're in a terrible position and he won't even dare try something different. If the stakes ever get higher, he definitely won't try something different.

We can't blame the midfield, we didn't even need one today for the vast majority of the game, we made no effort to play through the middle or do anything other than cross.

It's bad. Really bad.

 

[Robbo]

Yes we did (need a midfield ) but a more naturally attacking / goal scoring one which we havent had for far too long (and yes Scholes was still a good AM but in his last few seasons he didnt really score that much)

Instead of the typical central midfielder problem, we ended up with our entire team in their half of the pitch most of the time, and had plenty of our best creative/attacking players on.

It was a shambles whatever way you look at it I'm afraid.

 

[Robbo]

I'm personally not even bothered about winning anything. At the moment I'm more concerned by what happens if we let Moyes spend £150m and then it turns out he's not up to the job? That sets us back even longer, unless we're lucky and get a replacement who is able to utilise the players he bought and sort the club out.

I get it's all new for him and I don't think he's a bad manager (still), but we're potentially saying he's bigger than the club. Something that is a great concern. Our future is in his hands and so far there are very few positives and it looks pretty bleak.

As for the squad, yes it's not brilliant and some of the players are getting older, but if you mix world class players with decent players, you can still have a very good team. One that can get 4th. If you have a few world class players and bypass all that is good about them (by crossing and nothing else), you end up in a situation like this.

 

[Robbo]

I'm a big Ancelotti fan and I'd take him in a heartbeat but I'm not sure we could get him.

 

[Robbo]

Great find. When Moyes was appointed and I said pretty much the same as what Tom said in that thread (see below), I got shot down by lots of people, including 1 person who agreed with Tom's post at the time:

Tom wasn't far wrong back then. SAF should have given us another season so we could have potentially lined up a top class replacement. I'm sure SAF could have signed a couple of decent players to keep the squad at a better standard than it is now.

Unfortunately, not that many of us saw the fact we were prepared to take a massive gamble that he'd "come good" and turn into a great manager, rather than getting a ready made one. It did seem inevitable though.

 

[Robbo]

Personally I think United fans need to accept that it's going to take time. You've had a manager for the past 20+ years, no-one is going to walk into your life and fill that void, and make you win things the way you were. It's going to take time and a managerial merry-go-round will no help you.

If players are going against Moyes and he's lost the dressing room then those players should be dealt with accordingly, are they going to go against anyone because they aren't SAF?

Actually you're quite wrong.

I would say he needs to go if that's what I thought, but you can't transition from the legacy SAF left easily. It's something you have to go through and that's what United fans need to accept.

As others have pointed out, it has everything to do with the tactics and the mentality. I'm not a manager, but I wouldn't look at that squad and think: "Right, let's cross it and do nothing else. Work on nothing else. If we cross it, we'll win."

Why is Moyes thinking that? It's totally stupid. It makes no sense.

He's now got all this power, and might well ship out the majority of the team and replace them, then what? Why should he be able to do that? (And not have to answer for it)

I'm all for a transition. I don't want to win anything at the moment. Hell, even the top 4 isn't the end of the world, but I don't want to see tactics that would be insulting to a conference side being used, and NOTHING else. It's dumb, so dumb.

This has actually got nothing to do with SAF, and everything to do with Moyes. SAF is gone.

I don't expect Moyes to go, but in the next few games we need to stop the ridiculous, persistent crossing, and try something else. Something that isn't used by rubbish teams almost exclusively. I hope he sorts it out.

 

[Robbo]

Oh, and Robbo, sometimes managers just get the tactics horribly wrong, christ, Rodgers has done enough of that.

In every game, no matter the opposition, over and over again, progressively getting worse? I think not!

 

[Robbo]

The SAF retirement/Moyes appointment thread makes interesting reading now. Oh how badly it's gone so far. Baz was right, he seemingly can't change his tactics at all, not even a tiny bit.

It's also pretty clear that almost all of the support for him was because SAF chose him, not because of his (lack of) credentials or style. I think it's been pretty clearly established that the chance of getting two long serving managers in succession is extremely small.

I'd still like him to turn it around but that looks close to impossible now.

 

[Robbo]

Can't remember what Pundit said it but 1 of them said about somebody walking into the changing rooms & whether he is known as a Winner or not, This seems a bit silly maybe but when I look at him I don't see a Winner & as I don't see a winner then I don't see any of the players seeing him as a winner either.
Just something that stuck in my head tuther day.

That's true and Moyes calling the players "mentally soft" isn't going to help. As average as some of them might be, they've got medals and he hasn't.

 

[Robbo]

The Pundit wasn't even talking about Moyes at the time but I just thought to myself what the Man U players think when they look up at Moyes ?
After the last couple of weeks any chance they may have given him must have gone well out the window, If he stays the players will leave like Rats from a sinking ship first chance they get.

I've seen plenty of people say that about Moyes too. Maybe the players do think it.

 

[Robbo]

To be fair, I only said it was a (needless) gamble to take, not that he can't adapt. He still might come good but you've taken a massive step backwards before that might happen.

It doesn't look likely at the moment. At least he'll surely now have to try something other than the outrageous crossing game that's failed horribly so far. Even cutting it back into the box would be much better than lofted crosses (something RvP can take advantage of).

 

[Robbo]

No i'm a leeds fan, i've watched and played a lot of football in my time that's all. I know it takes longer 6 months to rearrange a squad. Some of you united fans are utterly deluded about how teams rise and fall. Its very much like civilisations and great powers..

Yes, just look how every team with a manager appointed at a similar time to Moyes is playing horribly too... Oh wait.

What a ridiculous statement. Implying that you need 11 of your own players in order to be able to manage a team properly. Ludicrous.

I'm gonna have to bow out of this tbh, can't explain any more than i have. All i'll say is...you can tell your tech geeks not footballers..

Reading through your posts, I don't think even you know what your point is, so I'm not sure what you expect from us.

Oh dear.