Does something need to be done about dogs?

[dowie]

Using the links you already gave, I countered their assertions, and now using your link to the RSPCA I find 47 Lurchers, but only 35 Staffies listed.

You're not being clear, what are you looking at, a snapshot now or data for the past yeas? Again moot, as you can see there are plenty of Staffies.

I already explained the relevance to the point you were trying to make and why your inclusion of this headline assertion is only detrimental to that point.

No, you haven't, you've gone off on some tangential point that has little relevance - what do tales of your wife being apprehensive about adopting from a shelter have to do with the point I made?

I can see you have a bee in your bonnet about that topic but it doesn't negate the point made and I'm not just relying on headlines this is something noted by various rescue orgs.

And again, it doesn't actually matter if in the last year they're now in 2nd or 3rd positon, the point still stands. If it doesn't explain why?

 

[dowie]

@dowie this might be useful for yourself with the misinformation you seem to spout in here.

What misinformation? If I spread some misinformation here you could quote me and point out where. Another poster just did so and I backed up the point made which was really that Staffies are a common breed found at shelters (and indeed have mostly been the number 1 breed).

Argument is all about locking jaws which is the most pathetic argument in here. Any dog owner will tell you the numerous ways you can de-lock a dogs jaw.

You just made up a straw man argument there.

 

[sidimmu]

What misinformation? If I spread some misinformation here you could quote me and point out where. Another poster just did so and I backed up the point made which was really that Staffies are a common breed found at shelters (and indeed have mostly been the number 1 breed).

You just made up a straw man argument there.

Everything is a straw mans argument if its against you, this thread shows it. Its all you go on about.
Ignore every other question and concern and focus on the nonsense or something for you to change the topic and not discuss the issue.

Your stats are out of date and frankly dont really make the points you expect them to.
Staffies are common breed in shelters, therefore they are dangerous dogs and people buy them and cant deal with their aggression appears to be the line you draw for it.

Truth is, a lot comes down to the owner purchasing a dog they cant handle or should not look after based on their life style and living conditions. Breed of dog has no say in it when the human is the problem.

 

[dowie]

Everything is a straw mans argument if its against you, this thread shows it. Its all you go on about.

OK if it's not a straw argument then quote my argument! Why did you argue some point, which I'm clearly objecting to, with no quote from me?

Ignore every other question and concern and focus on the nonsense or something for you to change the topic and not discuss the issue.

I'm not changing the topic though, the other poster did. I made a clear argument and he's gone off on one about his concerns re: the perceptions of staffies and rescue dogs... that's irrelevant to the argument I'm making re: them being commonly owned.

Staffies are common breed in shelters, therefore they are dangerous dogs and people buy them and cant deal with their aggression appears to be the line you draw for it.

Nope, where did I say that? Another straw man argument. Why not read what I've actually said and then try to engage? If you're having trouble then try using the quote function and asking a question about the bit you're quoting.

Truth is, a lot comes down to the owner purchasing a dog they cant handle or should not look after based on their life style and living conditions. Breed of dog has no say in it when the human is the problem.

Clearly false.

 

[ttaskmaster]

You're not being clear, what are you looking at, a snapshot now or data for the past yeas? Again moot, as you can see there are plenty of Staffies.

I'm factoring in all the times I've gone looking through numerous rescue centres around the UK over many years, and almost always found other breeds more common than Staffies.
'THE most common breed at EVERY shelter in the UK' should surely have them in overwhelming numbers at least at some of them, no?

No, you haven't, you've gone off on some tangential point that has little relevance - what do tales of your wife being apprehensive about adopting from a shelter have to do with the point I made?
I can see you have a bee in your bonnet about that topic but it doesn't negate the point made and I'm not just relying on headlines this is something noted by various rescue orgs.
And again, it doesn't actually matter if in the last year they're now in 2nd or 3rd positon, the point still stands. If it doesn't explain why?

I'm sure you realise (and even if you didn't, I already explained that) the wife was one example of the common misconception about dogs breeds in rescue centres - The same misconception you regurgitated.
Moreover, the assertion you threw out there does not substantiate the point you were trying to make, either.

In short - You're talking crap by rebleating headlines and in doing so only furthering the unfair reputation of the breed.

 

[sidimmu]

OK if it's not a straw argument then quote my argument! Why did you argue some point, which I'm clearly objecting to, with no quote from me?

I'm not changing the topic though, the other poster did. I made a clear argument and he's gone off on one about his concerns re: the perceptions of staffies and rescue dogs... that's irrelevant to the argument I'm making re: them being commonly owned.

Nope, where did I say that? Another straw man argument. Why not read what I've actually said and then try to engage? If you're having trouble then try using the quote function and asking a question about the bit you're quoting.

Clearly false.

CBA multi quoting this as you are weak as hell, you have ignored numerous questions across a number of posts. You want to throw the argument back with something completely irrelevant each time, then say its not what I have said, bore off.

You have said a lot about dangerous dogs being naturally dangerous with your justifications of them being dangerous by false propaganda and statistics of shelters, neither which give relevance to the dog being naturally dangerous or a risk as you would say.

We can all see that you have clearly been manipulated in to thinking these dogs are naturally dangerous and a problem just based on them being born and thinking it has nothing to do with how they are looked after and bought up.
Is that how you think of humans too? if not, why not? We are a product of our environment, why is it different for dogs?

Also, a lot of this does come down to the initial or original owner of the dog causing stress, unhappiness, trauma or given the dog no love or boundaries to follow. Thinking otherwise would mean you have no understanding for how anyone's actions have consequences on other beings and things in life.

 

[Richie]

Easiest way to get a dog to let go is to stick your finger up its bum.

Then have a wee kiss and a cuddle after?

 

[dowie]

I'm factoring in all the times I've gone looking through numerous rescue centres around the UK over many years, and almost always found other breeds more common than Staffies.
'THE most common breed at EVERY shelter in the UK' should surely have them in overwhelming numbers at least at some of them, no?

Again you provide no data... and again you're focusing on an aside rather than the actual point which was that they are common and a family pet not just some niche breed.. common enough to the point where it's been reported numerous times by various orgs that they're the most common.

Again suppose they are as of 2023 the 2nd or 3rd most common? How does that change the point I made? Answer it doesn't! They're still commonly owned by many people. You just want to go off on one about some unrelated point.

The point I made ultimately just relies on them being common, which they clearly are and you're not even disputing that.

I'm sure you realise (and even if you didn't, I already explained that) the wife was one example of the common misconception about dogs breeds in rescue centres - The same misconception you regurgitated.

Which has nothing to do with my point and no it isn't the same misconception, again most common != all dogs are staffies.

 

[dowie]

CBA multi quoting this as you are weak as hell, you have ignored numerous questions across a number of posts. You want to throw the argument back with something completely irrelevant each time, then say its not what I have said, bore off.

You just made up points on my behalf to argue against so of course you can't back any of them up, no point telling me to bore off when you can't even restate my argument.

Why try arguing with a position you're not even honest enough to acknowledge, you seem to just be triggered by the fact someone is opposed to bull terrier type dogs so have gone off on one about some imagined arguments based on jaws locking or something.

 

[sidimmu]

You just made up points on my behalf to argue against so of course you can't back any of them up, no point telling me to bore off when you can't even restate my argument.

Why try arguing with a position you're not even honest enough to acknowledge, you seem to just be triggered by the fact someone is opposed to bull terrier type dogs so have gone off on one about some imagined arguments based on jaws locking or something.

Okay you are just trolling now, my imagined argument are items you wrote literally yesterday.
Just because I dont have the time to shift through pages of waffle from yourself, quote them and identify to you, what you have written, you make the claim that I dont have evidence and am making it up.
You are smoking harder stuff than me, you might want to put it down for a bit.

 

[dowie]

Okay you are just trolling now, my imagined argument are items you wrote literally yesterday.

If that were the case you could simply quote me instead of making things up to argue against.

Where did I make this argument?

Staffies are common breed in shelters, therefore they are dangerous dogs and people buy them and cant deal with their aggression appears to be the line you draw for it.

The argument for bull terriers being dangerous is that they're disproportionately responsible for deaths, the point re: shelters was that they're not just some niche status breed but are also owned as family pets.

Secondly:

Argument is all about locking jaws which is the most pathetic argument in here. Any dog owner will tell you the numerous ways you can de-lock a dogs jaw.

My argument is all about "locking jaws"? What are you basing that on?

If it's something posted yesterday then just quote it.

 

[potatolord]

Easiest way to get a dog to let go is to stick your finger up its bum,mor lift its back legs higher than his head to remove his leverage

I may try this method when certain forum members engage me in debate.

Remind me to cut my nails and buy some hand-wash, before entering speakers corner.

 

[sidimmu]

If that were the case you could simply quote me instead of making things up to argue against.

Where did I make this argument?

The argument for bull terriers being dangerous is that they're disproportionately responsible for deaths, the point re: shelters was that they're not just some niche status breed but are also owned as family pets.

Secondly:

My argument is all about "locking jaws"? What are you basing that on?

If it's something posted yesterday then just quote it.

go read your own posts, I am not going searching for illogical and judgemental statements from someone who has no idea about dogs, their breeds, behaviours, learned behaviours and more.
Its clear to see you are one of these oldies on the forum with a view which cannot be changed, so instead of answering questions you'll try to move on to another point that had nothing to do in the first place.
You have ignored countless questions about your own view on dogs, as I bet you have never owned one and prob got bit when you was younger and just scared of them now.

Your point on sheleters has been that they are most popular dog in a shelter, therefore they must be naturally bad dogs who have been bought by unsuspecting families and scum of the earth who cant look after them.
But still wont take on the point that the problem sits with the owner who bought a dog they cant handle or manage in the first place.

 

[dowie]

go read your own posts, I am not going searching for illogical and judgemental statements from someone who has no idea about dogs, their breeds, behaviours, learned behaviours and more.

I'm well aware of my own posts and views thanks which is why I objected to you making up some straw man argument in the first place, you claimed it was only yesterday and objected to me calling out the straw man argument but when asked you can't back it up... despite only being yesterday. Lame.

Its clear to see you are one of these oldies on the forum with a view which cannot be changed, so instead of answering questions you'll try to move on to another point that had nothing to do in the first place.
You have ignored countless questions about your own view on dogs, as I bet you have never owned one and prob got bit when you was younger and just scared of them now.

I'm literally talking about my views on dogs here, you and taskmaster are quoting me and objecting to my views, I've not changed the subject or moved onto some other point. What have I ignored?

The pair of you keep on quoting me with either points that are irrelevant to the argument I've made or just, in your case, making up straw man arguments I never made (and when I point it out you're unable to quote where I even made the supposed claim you're addressing).

Your point on sheleters has been that they are most popular dog in a shelter, therefore they must be naturally bad dogs who have been bought by unsuspecting families and scum of the earth who cant look after them.

Where did I say that? You just lie constantly here, I ask you to try and address what I actually said and you ignore the request and just argue against your own imagined points such as the above claim or whatever you want to imagine about my experience with dogs like, in your imagination, I probably got bit when I was younger or never owned one??? We've had family dogs before (technically my mum and dad owned them and my mum still does own one, a rescue dog even) but I've never been bitten... none of that stuff you've just imagined is relevant to the actual arguments I've made.

Why are you not able to read what I actually said and address that?

If you're going to argue against a claim you think I've made then quote where I've made the claim instead of making things up.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Again you provide no data... and again you're focusing on an aside rather than the actual point which was that they are common and a family pet not just some niche breed.. common enough to the point where it's been reported numerous times by various orgs that they're the most common.
Again suppose they are as of 2023 the 2nd or 3rd most common? How does that change the point I made? Answer it doesn't! They're still commonly owned by many people. You just want to go off on one about some unrelated point.
The point I made ultimately just relies on them being common, which they clearly are and you're not even disputing that.

Firstly - Common in rescue centres != common family pet = Your assertion there does not substantiate your point made directly above it. In just the examples above, Lurchers consistently outnumber Staffies in rescue centres, yet do not even make the top 20 most popular dogs lists.
Secondly - Statements about commonality without the numbers to back it up != true... and since you made that statement, you have yet to provide any data beyond one number and two headlines regurgitated from nothing more substantial than opinion-piece blogs.
Even if Staffies were THE number 1 dog in rescue centres, they're only the 9th most commonly owned in the UK... and after the top 3 there's a real big drop-off.

UK: top 20 dog breeds by registered number 2022 | Statista

The top dog breed in the UK in 2022, as measured by number of registrations, was the Labrador Retriever breed.

www.statista.com

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media-centre/breed-registration-statistics/ - Covers the previous 10 years

Which has nothing to do with my point and no it isn't the same misconception, again most common != all dogs are staffies.

The point you were aiming for and what you then followed it up with are two separate statements, the latter of which I am calling you out on.

 

[sidimmu]

Where did I say that? You just lie constantly here, I ask you to try and address what I actually said and you ignore the request and just argue against your own imagined points such as the above claim or whatever you want to imagine about my experience with dogs like I probably got biut when I was younger or never owned one??? We've had family dogs before (technically my mum and dad owned them) but I've never been bitten... none of that stuff you've just imagined is relevant to the actual arguments I've made.

Why are you not able to read what I actually said and address that?

Post #1078.

Thanks for calling me a liar you POS. Why not link me your post to your direct views on dogs as I must have missed this crucial piece of information.
Its very easy to see where you have said that, its abundant in your replies over the past couple of days.
Do I really want to go back through pages to identify something you said to throw it back to you? Not really, waste of my time as it wont change a thing, you'll still be a dick about it all and claim that isnt what you said and its my interpretation. Pathetic.

 

[dowie]

Firstly - Common in rescue centres != common family pet = Your assertion there does not substantiate your point made directly above it. In just the examples above, Lurchers consistently outnumber Staffies in rescue centres, yet do not even make the top 20 most popular dogs lists.

Yet you don't provide anything to back up that claim re: lurchers?

Even if Staffies were THE number 1 dog in rescue centres, they're only the 9th most commonly owned in the UK... and after the top 3 there's a real big drop-off.

UK: top 20 dog breeds by registered number 2022 | Statista

The top dog breed in the UK in 2022, as measured by number of registrations, was the Labrador Retriever breed.

www.statista.com

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media-centre/breed-registration-statistics/ - Covers the previous 10 years

You're now talking about registered breeds with the kennel club though.

There is no compulsory registration in the UK, you're conflating people with pedigree dogs registering them here... do you suppose that Kev and Stacy who bought some bull terrier type dog as a family pet have bothered to officially register it?

since you made that statement, you have yet to provide any data beyond one number and two headlines regurgitated from nothing more substantial than opinion-piece blogs.

...from animal rescue organisations... so they were number 1 for the RSPCA, they've been reported in the past certainly as being number 1 at Battersea.. the point again is that they're a common breed.

So not only are you making an irrelevant point here, you're doing it badly by citing stats for pedigree breeds registered with the kennel club!

Even if they're not number 1 in 2023 at shelters they're still obviously a common dog which is sufficient in itself to point out that they're not some niche breed only owned by people who want status dogs.

Post #1078.

Thanks for calling me a liar you POS.
Its very easy to see where you have said that, its abundant in your replies over the past couple of days.

If it was you could quote it, note you don't even attempt to quote post #1078 as it doesn't support either of the claims you said I made! Funny that.

If you're going to argue against something I've said then, again, just quote it instead of lying please, it's not that difficult.

 

[sidimmu]

If it was you could quote it, note you don't even attempt to quote post #1078 as it doesn't support either of the claims you said I made! Funny that.

If you're going to argue against something I've said then, again, just quote it instead of lying please, it's not that difficult.

You literally have no idea what you are even debating anymore.
You have been arguing for days that staffies and bull terrier type of dogs are the most common in shelters, then you are here today to argue you have not been saying such a thing.
Post 1078;

Britain's Top Dog, the Staffie, is breed most likely to be found in shelters | Preloved

The Staffie has been crowned Britain's Top Dog Breed, so why are so many still waiting for furever homes in shelters across the UK?

www.preloved.co.uk

10 most common dog breeds in UK rescue centres, thanks to being "too ugly for Instagram"

Shocking new research reveals how social media is changing dog owner behaviour

www.countryliving.com

Similarly in the US:

Rescue Dog Breeds Revealed: A Close Look at the Most Common Dogs in Shelters

Enter the world of rescue dog breeds with our insightful guide. Discover the most common dogs in shelters and learn about the most adopted and abandoned dog breeds. Is rescuing a dog the right choice for you?

cuddleclones.com

Ah my reply did not bring across the highlighted and bold elements you highlighted in post 1078.

So what is it?
Only dangerous dogs which is an almighty get out for you here are the most common breeds in shelters?
Or is it staffie and bull terrier types which you have said above in that post and a number of others.

 

[dowie]

You literally have no idea what you are even debating anymore.
You have been arguing for days that staffies and bull terrier type of dogs are the most common in shelters, then you are here today to argue you have not been saying such a

Eh? I never claimed I wasn't doing that? You're getting very muddled here thus why I requested you quote me. Staffies *are* one of the most common if not the most common dogs in shelters.

You made up two straw man claims:

Where did I make this argument?

Staffies are common breed in shelters, therefore they are dangerous dogs and people buy them and cant deal with their aggression appears to be the line you draw for it.

The argument for bull terriers being dangerous is that they're disproportionately responsible for deaths, the point re: shelters was that they're not just some niche status breed but are also owned as family pets.

Secondly:

Argument is all about locking jaws which is the most pathetic argument in here. Any dog owner will tell you the numerous ways you can de-lock a dogs jaw.

My argument is all about "locking jaws"? What are you basing that on?

All you've done now is point out that I pointed out that they're common in shelters... something I never disputed. I'll ask again that you read what I've said more carefully and if you're going to address a claim I've made then just quote me. So far you're just addressing claims you've made up and then claiming I've disputed something I never disputed... this really shouldn't be hard.

 

[sidimmu]

Eh? I never claimed I wasn't doing that? You're getting very muddled here thus why I requested you quote me. Staffies *are* one of the most common if not the most common dogs in shelters.

You made up two straw man claims:

Where did I make this argument?
The argument for bull terriers being dangerous is that they're disproportionately responsible for deaths, the point re: shelters was that they're not just some niche status breed but are also owned as family pets.

Secondly:

My argument is all about "locking jaws"? What are you basing that on?

All you've done now is point out that I pointed out that they're common in shelters... something I never disputed. I'll ask again that you read what I've said more carefully and if you're going to address a claim I've made then just quote me. So far you're just addressing claims you've made up and then claiming I've disputed something I never disputed... this really shouldn't be hard.

I think you need to re-read a few of your replies firstly.
Secondly, think you need a grasp on how sarcasm works.

In regards to your last point, why dont you go back through the topic and identify where I have said that is your direct view about locking jaws.
Here i'll save you the bother, I didnt, you read far too in to it and took it as an attack on you. I mentioned you in that post, but I never said that was your direct view.
Maybe pull your head out your ass, this whole thread is not about you.