Does something need to be done about dogs?

sidimmu said:
I think you need to re-read a few of your replies firstly.
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Again, quote me if you're going to take issue with one of my replies, you're the one making up arguments on my behalf that you can't support.

sidimmu said:
Maybe pull your head out your ass, this whole thread is not about you.
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You're literally quoting me when you're saying these things but, sadly, not actually quoting the arguments you're claiming I've made, these are claims you've made about me and which you can't support. You've chosen to make it about me and my supposed arguments, you literally tagged my name earlier with a complete straw man.

Now you've decided (retrospectively, after your initial excuses of not wanting to go back and find the posts) that your BS claims are just sarcasm??
 
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I have commented on this before. I had a collie when I was in my teens. He was a very well behaved fellow and sociable. One evening visited a neighbour's house where they had a dog. It was aggressive and bit me. I didn't expect that - it was from the same litter as my dog. I'm convinced that the difference is the owner.
 
dowie said:
Yet you don't provide anything to back up that claim re: lurchers?
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Years of personal experience along with direct examination. Go see for yourself.
If Staffies are THE most common dog in EVERY rescue centre, why is that not the case in any centres that I went and looked at, including the ones you yourself mentioned? Are they hiding, or something?

dowie said:
You're now talking about registered breeds with the kennel club though.
There is no compulsory registration in the UK, you're conflating people with pedigree dogs registering them here... do you suppose that Kev and Stacy who bought some bull terrier type dog as a family pet have bothered to officially register it?
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Wrong.
Microchipping and registration has been a legal requirement since the Microchipping of Dogs (England) Regulations of 2015.
As the keeper of the dog, your name, address and emergency contact information, along with various identity details of the dog (breed, DoB, sex, etc), are registered on a database. You are required to keep this information up to date, such if you move house or change phone.
This applies to every dog over 8 weeks old.
£500 fine for failing to comply with the law, and possibly criminal prosecution.

The Microchipping of Dogs (England) Regulations 2015

These Regulations provide for the compulsory microchipping of dogs and the recording of each dog’s identity and its keeper’s contact details on a database.
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk

Incidentally, this data must be available to all database operators, and the Kennel Club is one of those database operators, which is why they will register ALL dogs, both pedigree and crossbreeds.

Registrations | The Kennel Club Shop

We register over 250,000 pedigree dogs and crossbreed dogs every year. Read about dog registration and how to complete our registration forms.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk www.thekennelclub.org.uk


dowie said:
...from animal rescue organisations... so they were number 1 for the RSPCA, they've been reported in the past certainly as being number 1 at Battersea.. the point again is that they're a common breed.
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ONE rescue organisation... which is also the one that will most likely be called to deal with dogs of irresponsible owners, at that.
ONE second-hand sales website.
ONE lifestyle magazine website.

If the point is that they're a common breed, why not just say that? Why undermine your statement with sensationalist assertions that have no relevance or relation to the point?

dowie said:
Even if they're not number 1 in 2023 at shelters they're still obviously a common dog which is sufficient in itself to point out that they're not some niche breed only owned by people who want status dogs.
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No, but you're smart enough to realise that pointing out how many end up in rescue centres will make them look like they're mostly for unscrupulous people seeking a status dog, or fighting dog.
 
Graetzbridge said:
I have commented on this before. I had a collie when I was in my teens. He was a very well behaved fellow and sociable. One evening visited a neighbour's house where they had a dog. It was aggressive and bit me. I didn't expect that - it was from the same litter as my dog. I'm convinced that the difference is the owner.
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What about children that are raised by the same parents yet one goes on to be violent and the other doesn't? It's almost like there's some sort of other factor at play. Maybe it has a name? Maybe it's something that's been heavily studied?
 
Dis86 said:
What about children that are raised by the same parents yet one goes on to be violent and the other doesn't? It's almost like there's some sort of other factor at play. Maybe it has a name? Maybe it's something that's been heavily studied?
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Possibly but I think those children go out in the world and meet other people. The dogs generally don't do that unless they are strays.
 
ttaskmaster said:
Years of personal experience along with direct examination. Go see for yourself.
If Staffies are THE most common dog in EVERY rescue centre, why is that not the case in any centres that I went and looked at, including the ones you yourself mentioned? Are they hiding, or something?
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I doubt they're hiding anything you're again just throwing in some anecdotes which aren't particularly relevant to the point. It's been widely reported, I've given you RSPCA data from 2019, it was Battersea's most popular reported in 2014 etc.. whereas you've provided nothing other than your personal anecdoes.

ttaskmaster said:
Incidentally, this data must be available to all database operators, and the Kennel Club is one of those database operators, which is why they will register ALL dogs, both pedigree and crossbreeds.

Registrations | The Kennel Club Shop

We register over 250,000 pedigree dogs and crossbreed dogs every year. Read about dog registration and how to complete our registration forms.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk www.thekennelclub.org.uk
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[citation needed]

That does not mean everyone registers their dog with the kennel club! All you've done is link to some forms where people can choose to register... and a site that says they register 250k a year... yet the dog population of the UK jumped from like 9 million pre-pandemic to an estimated 13 million now.

ttaskmaster said:
ONE rescue organisation... which is also the one that will most likely be called to deal with dogs of irresponsible owners, at that.
ONE second-hand sales website.
ONE lifestyle magazine website.
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Multiple newspaper reports and rescue organizations have reported on it.
ttaskmaster said:
If the point is that they're a common breed, why not just say that? Why undermine your statement with sensationalist assertions that have no relevance or relation to the point?
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I literally have said that! I've said it repeatedly now and I've pointed out several times now that it doesn't matter if they are, in 2023, the 2nd or 3rd most popular dog, the point still applies. You've again provided nothing to dispute the point other than anecdotal claims of some snapshot of what you saw at a local rescue centre.

ttaskmaster said:
No, but you're smart enough to realise that pointing out how many end up in rescue centres will make them look like they're mostly for unscrupulous people seeking a status dog, or fighting dog.
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What does that have to do with anything, you're just banging on about some irrelevant point that has nothing to do with the argument made because, apparently, your wife was hesitant to adopt a rescue dog?

i'll point it out again, suppose Staffies are in fact now the second most popular dog at shelters or the 3rd most popular... how does that affect the argument I made? Answer: again, it doesn't!
 
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Dogs from the same litter can and do show very different behavioural traits. The last litter I sold I held back one puppy to keep, not because I thought it the best, it wasn't, nor because I desperately wanted another dog. But because by 10 weeks I could tell it had the potential to be a handful, and so it has turned out. By far not the biggest male in the litter, but its aggressive streak to other male dogs was apparent very early.

He's mellowed.a bit, but still the highlight of each day for him is starting or causing a fight, even if he gets a good thrashing from one of my older and much bigger dogs. Noisy as hell, minimally obedient, and in the hands of an inexperienced owner, or a family with another male dog, a real PITA. He has his charms, or so i try to remind myself, but long experience has shown that you can often tell a delinquent at eight to twelve weeks. Or a well rounded and amiable dog.
 
dowie said:
Preferable to utter tripe like this:
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Someone cant take a joke :cry:

IMO Its true, but as I said narcissism is probably too strong a word, its still comes from self-interest. But its ironic you say that with all guff you spout, gotta try and win that argument at all costs right. You obviously hate dogs, maybe some sort of fear from childhood, pretty odious to suggest wiping out staffies, when most of the time its irresponsible owners that cause the problems.

I hadn't read the start of this thread so had a skim through, some people have posted experiences of problematic encounters with staffies, my experience has been the opposite, but then the people that owned them were decent, who had trained and treated the dogs well. Also feel like poking my eyeballs out after reading the "licences are licences" part, cretinous :cry:
 
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Dis86 said:
Was going to create this thread a few days back after yet another child was killed by a dog however a further 3 attacks have taken place since then, including another child killed and 2 more seriously hurt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-60907487

A quick read on the matter came up with this sentence "fatal dog attacks have been increasing significantly over time which was not attributable to the increase in number of dogs".

Now the number of deaths isn't massive but is still too high, the main issue is the numbers of people injured. Its estimated for each fatality there are 200000 bites and 40000 serious injuries.

It's also ignoring the fact that owners are often violent due to confrontation over their dogs (something I've personally experienced), and aspects of animal neglect and cruelty.

Do we need to look at dog ownership and something to ensure only the right people can have a dog? My thought is yes, but how could we do this?
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i'm very late to this thread but yes i do think that dog ownership should be regulated so that only the right people should own a dog. i think those that own dogs that can do real damage, the large powerful/muscular dogs as owned by many (but not all) idiots should be subject to particularly stringent tests/regulation likethat they must be muzzled in public for example. i also think penalties for animal cruelty should be far far higher.
 
The penalty for your dog biting someone unprovoked should be like carrying a weapon. A minimum jail term, with the dog being put down.

I bet that would encourage people to be more careful, or think twice about having one.
 
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I do feel somewhat concerned about likely loss of dog-walking as an enterprise but the current incentive to walk numerous dogs with zero liability is just ridiculous and it's already claimed lives due to equally stupid expectations about the monetary value attached to dog-walking, frankly if you don't have the time to walk your own dog you probably shouldn't own one but if it's simply impossible to be home enough to do it then at least pay the other person well for risking their life/others with a dog's unknown temperament.

Sadly it's probably less hassle to multiply liability for someone who intentionally opts to endanger themselves/everyone else knowing full well that they can't possibly control them if even one of them runs off.
 
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Nasher said:
I bet that would encourage people to be more careful, or think twice about having one.
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I'm not so sure to be honest,

Most people who care and train their dogs properly, wouldn't need such deterrance - because they started off as caring owners from the beginning.

The people who don't give a **** who found an American Bully XL for free on Facebook, never cared, won't care - and will just go "whatever bruv" if it gets taken off them and put down, or they get arrested..
 
Nasher said:
The penalty for your dog biting someone unprovoked should be like carrying a weapon. A minimum jail term, with the dog being put down.

I bet that would encourage people to be more careful, or think twice about having one.
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In an ideal world that would be wonderful, but the threat of jail hasn't stopped us murdering each other, stealing things etc
 
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