Man of Honour
Yes never heard of it before in 13 years.
Does something need to be done about illegal/unlicenced/uninsured electric vehicles on our roads (and pavements)
- Thread starter silvagti
- Start date
Yes never heard of it before in 13 years.
Dead cyclist can have quite an impact on the zero-fault driver, additionally given they way that car drivers drive as the light is green and they're not expecting someone todo an emergency stop in front due to the cyclist.. there's likely to be more than one accident as a result (yes it's part the problem of driving too close).
Permabanned
Quite commonly used in Cheshire, not so much so in Shropshire in my experience. Having said the art of articulating any sort of conversation with or without added colloquialisms is rare in parts of Shropshire
Associate
Sinclair C5s (manufactured in 1985) also had 250 watts motors on them and were classified as motorised tricycles so no need for a driving license, insurance, MOT or number plates. Apparently, their motors frequently overheated though and with their lead-acid batteries they only had a range of 20 miles. 250w is equivalent to 0.34 horsepower, which is rather pathetic.
Yes, but how are you supposed to prove that your huge obvious 5 Kw electric motor conversion kit has been limited to 250w by software? If the Police stop you on the road and see that power rating written on it then they're going to confiscate it. There is a cottage industry on the e-bike forums now for making fake 250W aluminum labels to stick on more powerful retro-fitted motors. Although, by doing that you risk getting charged with a criminal offence rather than just a road traffic offence.
There are a lot of steep hills around here too. The flattest place I've ever lived in was Cambridge, cycling there was a lot easier. I don't need high performance or speed. Just looking to get some help with pulling a 60 Kg trailer when making journeys of over 5 miles so I don't get home soaked in sweat! I have heard some good things about the Bafang BBS01 250w conversion kit. Although, the fully laden weight of my converted e-bike (with trailer, battery, cargo, full backpack etc) would be about 190-200 Kg, so I'm not sure if it would be adequate without being illegally de-restricted.
You should try doing it pulling a 60 Kg trailer while carrying a backpack weighing >20 Kg too! Yes, being able to accelerate out of danger is also very useful in an emergency and if your e-bike is restricted to 15.5 mph anyway then what difference does it make if you can start from stationary using a throttle or accelerate up to 15.5 mph without having to peddle?
@Maple Leaf The Bafang or the Tongsheng seem to be the two most popular kits for bottom bracket conversions.
Went for the Tongsheng myself. The principle difference is that the Bafang is cadence sensing, and the Tongsheng is torque sensing. Latter is better for battery life and you still work up a sweat; cadence if better if you want to cycle to work and not work up a sweat
From what I gather there are other minor difference - the TS is supposed to be a bit louder.
Went for the Tongsheng myself. The principle difference is that the Bafang is cadence sensing, and the Tongsheng is torque sensing. Latter is better for battery life and you still work up a sweat; cadence if better if you want to cycle to work and not work up a sweat
From what I gather there are other minor difference - the TS is supposed to be a bit louder.
Man of Honour
How are you going to start pedalling a 25kg ebike up a steep hill from a stationary position when the electronics fail.
I say it's a joke to engineer scenarios where now it's essential that there's an electric motor to move the vehicle.
Like... a car?
I reckon this thread is about uninsured unlicenced vehicles and I'm replying about an ebike scenario. You on topic or?
Man of Honour
I had a 1000 watt motor for around a month and the second time the assist couldn't get me up a hill because the battery was running low I ended up putting the 250 watt motor back on because it's way lighter.
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Man of Honour
Just seen this on my Timeline
Associate
@Maple Leaf The Bafang or the Tongsheng seem to be the two most popular kits for bottom bracket conversions.
Went for the Tongsheng myself. The principle difference is that the Bafang is cadence sensing, and the Tongsheng is torque sensing. Latter is better for battery life and you still work up a sweat; cadence if better if you want to cycle to work and not work up a sweat
Thanks for the information. I have heard that Bafang mid-drive motors also start with quite a lot of torque so they are more likely to snap your chain or damage your gears. Only problem is that Bafang have sued Tongsheng in China for patent infringement so the latter's kits are harder to find online nowadays.
Just seen this on my Timeline
So even if you buy a feeble 250w motor conversion kit, without a throttle, limited to 15.5 mph, which requires pedalling to assist you; the powers-that-be will still confiscate your e-bike because it wasn't made by a "licensed manufacturer" with "approved parts".
How much does a new e-bike that's capable of >20 miles long journeys every day cost nowadays? Last time I checked, a new 21-speed mountain e-bike (similar to my unconverted one) started at £2,500. For that sort of money you can buy a secondhand diesel/petrol car with years of life in it. No good deed goes unpunished in this country!
Man of Honour
I have always known this since 2010 when I had my first conversion and always told people who I've done conversions for that they are not strictly legal so be careful.
I remember being told back in 2010 that when my first conversion was done I should take it to a 'testing centre' to see if it's OK.
Now here's the daft thing, the company Cyclotricity who I had my very first eBike off use the same parts as Yose Power which are the parts on my eBikes.
However Cyclotricity have a license to put those parts on really bad bikes that you'd pay £100 for from Sports Direct where my bikes are quite good ones.
Here is a recent picture from a Cyclotricity group of a Stealth bike, the one I had in 2010, that was a piece of junk but they have a license to put parts on it.
the bloke broke his arm.
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How can they possibly say, "A kit bought off the internet will not comply with the legislation."Just seen this on my Timeline
Because there are kits that do comply with the legislation. Strange. Anyway, it's not like the police have the resources to actually go around checking confiscating every bike.
So strange, because it actually seems like they're waging a war on normal e-bikes ridden by your average Joe, now. Within the speed limit and all that jazz.
I don't think that's correct. The legislation does not mandate that e-bikes must be built by a company on an approved list, or using specific components. Show me any law that does that.
Legislation can demand that components meet safety standards like BSC or whatever. Legislation never says, "You must buy a Bosch drill with a Samsung battery, sold by Homebase" or whatever.
There are plenty of kits that comply with the safety standards, and so saying that every self-built/converted e-bike is illegal cannot possibly be true.
e: I will reach out to the UK-based company that sold me my battery and see what they have to say, but if the above was true then all of those companies who convert bikes using Bafang or Tongsheng motors would be breaking the law. That cannot be correct. They would all be liable to prosecution.
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What does the illegal actions of the customer have to do with the innocent company supplying parts or even entire vehicles for legal use on private land...
Well if you check out some of the companies offering conversion services, you would know they do not restrict their use to private land.What does the illegal actions of the customer have to do with the innocent company supplying parts or even entire vehicles for legal use on private land...
They typically have two offerings: derestricted for private use or for road use.
e: For clarity: the kits are the same. They simply mod the firmware to derestrict them. Or they don't for road use.
e2: The companies typically advertise their kits (non-modded) as compliant with UK law for road use. They state that the customer will be asked to sign an agreement for the modded kits, stating that the customer will use them on private land only. The customer does *not* sign for the non-modded kits.
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Man of Honour
The forerunner of all eBike forums/groups has been Pedelecs and I asked the question back in 2010 and got a load of stuff posted back confirming conversions aren't legally proper.
When I went to buy my first eBike a shop owner told me the 'laws' and then I confirmed it with the conversion shop and then went to Pedelecs who all said teh same thing.
I ended up buying a Cyclotricity Stealth because it had been properly passed off.
Because it was so bad mechanical wise a few months later I couldn't give a toss and went to the conversion shop.
'Laws' may have changed now.
Soldato
I detest the E scooters.
One thing I would like to see is for those who ride mobility scooters have some training in how to steer and control the things. Guessing many don’t/didn’t drive a car.
Some users of the mobility scooters drive them at max speed (8mph) inside shops, including mine. Had my legs pinned between a scooter and the produce display many times. Then when some turn at the bottom of an aisle, they go too fast and collide with shelving and things fly off and get damaged. One old man drove straight into a promotion end of wine. Knocking over about two dozen bottles of wine. He never apologised and us having to mop up at least 18 litres of wine, glass - about £150-180 worth.
Supposed to use mobility scooters at 4mph in shops etc.
One thing I would like to see is for those who ride mobility scooters have some training in how to steer and control the things. Guessing many don’t/didn’t drive a car.
Some users of the mobility scooters drive them at max speed (8mph) inside shops, including mine. Had my legs pinned between a scooter and the produce display many times. Then when some turn at the bottom of an aisle, they go too fast and collide with shelving and things fly off and get damaged. One old man drove straight into a promotion end of wine. Knocking over about two dozen bottles of wine. He never apologised and us having to mop up at least 18 litres of wine, glass - about £150-180 worth.
Supposed to use mobility scooters at 4mph in shops etc.