You'd kill cycling overnight if you required insurance. We need to encourage active transport not wipe it out
Does something need to be done about illegal/unlicenced/uninsured electric vehicles on our roads (and pavements)
- Thread starter silvagti
- Start date
Permabanned
cycling no electric yes .. if they can do the speed it needs insurance imagine a 12 yr old doing 40+mph ?? never could with just legs ..You'd kill cycling overnight if you required insurance. We need to encourage active transport not wipe it out
Soldato
The point is you cannot insure them even if you wanted to.
There certainly seem to be a fairly large black hole developing in the market between pushbikes and motorbikes.
I think we need to move beyond the current situation where the police essentially seem to deem that these vehicles shouldn’t exist you can’t get insurance etc even if you wanted to use them responsibly.
They are here to stay and the longer the authorities burry their heads in the sand the longer we’ll be waiting for more workable system.
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Associate
If he was on an e-bike capable of doing that speed (with assistance or sole propulsion from a motor) then the law already requires him to have a valid driving license, a number plate, insurance, an MOT and DVSA approval for it.
Associate
It's all about doing a risk/benefit analysis. A legal pedelec is limited to 15.5 mph (which is a moderate speed for most non-assisted cyclists), thus they are unlikely to do more damage to someone else in an accident than a normal cyclist would. Given that cyclists rarely cause serious injury and death on our roads (to other people) it was decided decades ago that requiring them to get third-party insurance would be unnecessary. Therefore, to require pedelec users to get third-party insurance would simply make them even more financially unattractive than they already are and hence result in more car usage for little benefit.
Associate
No. If it was an illegal (not rental) e-scooter or an illegal e-bike (not insured, plated, MOT'd etc) then they would be prosecuted in that case. If it was a cyclist or legal pedelec rider (who was driving dangerously) they would also be prosecuted if they cause an injury to someone else.
In either case, the injured person could also sue the rider in civil court for compensation. Having third-party insurance protects you from the financial consequences if you cause a road accident, but not having it does not allow you to just walk away with no commitment to the victim.
Agreed.
Man of Honour
Has this happened or are you just making up a scenario?
I could make 1000s up for us motorists but they have probably all happened
They were using a scenario to make a point and yes everyone knows cars do more damage but that isn't the point of this threadHas this happened or are you just making up a scenario?
I could make 1000s up for us motorists but they have probably all happened
Man of Honour
It's become yet another anti-cycling thread where it's OK for us motorists to kill or maim every day but a cyclists goes through a red light and all hell is let loose
Associate
The point is that the law already bans privately owned e-scooters for usage in public places. It also already requires e-bike riders with >250 watts (continuous output) motors or those capable of motor assistance/sole propulsion above 15.5 mph to be 16+, have at least an AM (CBT) driving license, DVSA vehicle model approval, third-party insurance, MOT and a number plate when used on public roads. The problem is that the current laws regarding these issues are rarely enforced, it is easy for people to buy these road-use illegal/regulated vehicles relatively cheaply and to conceal them at home due to their small size.
The Police are under-manned and obviously have to prioritise which road traffic offences they try to prevent/investigate. The damage that an e-scooter or e-bike which is illegally ridden on the road can do is clearly a lot less than a car/van/lorry/truck can do, so understandably the Police will concentrate on the latter group of vehicles.
If you feel so strongly about it then when you see someone riding an illegal e-scooter or a clearly unrestricted e-bike (not a pedelec) in a public place then make a video of them doing it and follow them home. Give the Police their address and the video and report them for a road traffic offence. If you see someone riding a pedelec, bicycle or rental e-scooter dangerously then you could do the same thing. (For the rental e-scooter you may not need their address as the company who rented them it should have a copy of their driving license on file and it should be able to see where the e-scooter has been ridden via its GPS tracker.)
If you see someone riding dangerously on one of these vehicles, or a bicycle, who causes an accident then you can do a "citizen's arrest" on them and detain them until the Police arrive. (I would not recommend doing a citizen's arrest on someone who is just riding an illegal e-scooter in a public place though, although if he was driving it dangerously and you have video evidence of that then it might be OK. The Police could charge you with "Wasting Police Time", or worse, if you call them out after doing a citizen's arrest on someone for something the Police would not have arrested them for. Also, a citizen's arrest would be far safer legally if you wore a body-cam and filmed it because if you need to defend yourself you would have evidence that you did not assault the arrested person.)
Man of Honour
or sit behind your PC moaning about the odd eBiker/eScooter doing something wrong without looking at the bigger picture.
This is what the thread is for isn't it?
I would love to see what would happen if the public took it upon themselves to do the police's job.
I can't see that ending well. Presumably the "citizens arrest" is being made by some grumpy old curmudgeon.
Man of Honour
but what you fail to understand is that the Police can't cope with the constant death and destruction caused by us motorists so these illegal electric vehicles are zero on their priority.
When they cause as many problems as motorists it might hit their radar.