Donald Trump

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She's one to talk about a fair trial, a fair trial is about being fair to the accused, and we know how one sided it was in the house. She's trying to frame it so the Republicans won't call up any witnesses she doesn't want like Hunter Biden
You're really having problems understanding what a relevent witness is and what the whole thing is about aren't you?

They gave Trump and the whitehouse every opportunity to have their witnesses appear, they tried to force Trump to have his staff appear, but Trump and the White house refused.

The reason they don't want Biden to appear is because it's irrelevent and such a load of bovine excrement that even the security services and intelligence community are saying so.
The only reason the Republicans want biden to appear is because they want to continue making nonsense unfounded and disproven claims.


As a general rule in any court case, if you've got people willing to state on oath that what they're saying is the truth, you believe them over the people that aren't even willing to appear in front of you when you ask them to give their side of the case.
 
So the Evangelical Christian group did indeed heavily criticise Trump and support impeachment, it's just they name dropped someone they perhaps shouldn't have. Therefore in your brain the entire story is somehow 'fake news'.

Peak Tang0
:D
But but Hillary and her pizzagate paedo ring too lol.
 
1) Republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses, only a few on a white list were allowed
2) Schiff was repeatedly shouting down questions
3) Protecting secret government information by storing phone calls on a secret government server is a crime now? Meanwhile Hillary sells government information by putting it on an internet connected server in a private home
4) He released the full transcript, showing no crime
 
The reason they don't want Biden to appear is because it's irrelevent and such a load of bovine excrement that even the security services and intelligence community are saying so.

Well the Democrat standard is that you're guilty before being proved innocent, why won't they bring in Biden to prove his innocence?

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Imagine the scenes in here if this were real :D
 
1) Republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses, only a few on a white list were allowed
2) Schiff was repeatedly shouting down questions
3) Protecting secret government information by storing phone calls on a secret government server is a crime now? Meanwhile Hillary sells government information by putting it on an internet connected server in a private home
4) He released the full transcript, showing no crime

Have you just come back from a Trump rally ? Happy if you can provide evidence on all 4 talking points - not YouTube clips but credible evidence.

I guess the world like to see No. 4 on your list :p
 
1) Republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses, only a few on a white list were allowed
Trump was directly and publicly invited and told he could bring who he likes including his own lawyers. Trump was given the option to turn up with who ever he wanted, with any witness he wanted. Trump was also given the chance and he refused to provide the full unedited transcript to clear his name. This was all public. Don't you wonder why Trump is refusing to let anyone see the full unedited transcript?


“Protecting secret government information by storing phone calls on a secret government server is a crime now? Meanwhile Hillary sells government information by putting it on an internet connected server in a private home”
If you are so against Hillary doing that why you are ok with the Trumps doing that? The Trumps got caught storing government information on a private email server on Trumps own land connected to the internet. Trump also pleaded guilty to fraud and corruption. So why are you not outranged at what he is doing?

As for that server it was for storing classified information only. The transcript was not classified and does not contained secret government information according to anyone that I have seen so there is zero reason to put it on that server. It goes directly against long-standing White House protocol.

Given that Trump has been found guilty of fraud and corruption with 100% proof way are you ok for him to hide a transcript that first hand witness’s say contain further crimes commented by Trump? Would you let Hillary do that? Would you let Biden do that? I bet if Hillary or Biden did that you would be shouting for the roof tops. But Trump does it and suddenly its ok by your books?



“4) He released the full transcript, showing no crime”
Are you really that easily mislead? Is it really that easy to pull the wool over your eyes? Trump released a heavily edited and redacted transcript which is the entire problem. Why would you trust someone that has committed fraud and corruption in the past to self-edit his own transcript and then take his word that the edited redacted transcript clears his name? First hand witness’s say the full transcript has crimes on it and important information. Trump is hiding that full transcript information illegally on a hidden server that it should never have been put on as its against White House protocol.

Again I ask what would you do if a first hand witness said Hillary has committed a crime and is hiding the full transcript illegally on a sever it shouldn't be on as its against White House protocol? Then Hilary puts out a heavily edited transcript with large sections missing. Would you accept that clears Hillary's name?

Don’t you see why that is a problem? Why are you ok with Trump doing that? Why don’t you want to see the full real transcript? Are you scared of what it might show? Do you not want to see the truth?
 
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Trump was directly and publicly invited and told he could bring who he likes including his own lawyers. Trump was given the option to turn up with who ever he wanted, with any witness he wanted. Trump was also given the chance and he refused to provide the full unedited transcript to clear his name. This was all public. Don't you wonder why Trump is refusing to let anyone see the full unedited transcript?

False. And there is no other transcript

If you are so against Hillary doing that why you are ok with the Trumps doing that? The Trumps got caught storing government information on a private email server on Trumps own land connected to the internet. Trump also pleaded guilty to fraud and corruption. So why are you not outranged at what he is doing?

As for that server it was for storing classified information only. The transcript was not classified and does not contained secret government information according to anyone that I have seen so there is zero reason to put it on that server. It goes directly against long-standing White House protocol.

Given that Trump has been found guilty of fraud and corruption with 100% proof way are you ok for him to hide a transcript that first hand witness’s say contain further crimes commented by Trump? Would you let Hillary do that? Would you let Biden do that? I bet if Hillary or Biden did that you would be shouting for the roof tops. But Trump does it and suddenly its ok by your books?

Hillary held classified intel on her own private server, completely different from moving classified calls with foreign governments to a secure server which is standard practice and it's exactly what Obama did too.

Why are you creating conspiracies that Trump is hiding the call for nefarious reasons? Where's the evidence

Are you really that easily mislead? Is it really that easy to pull the wool over your eyes? Trump released a heavily edited and redacted transcript which is the entire problem. Why would you trust someone that has committed fraud and corruption in the past to self-edit his own transcript and then take his word that the edited redacted transcript clears his name? First hand witness’s say the full transcript has crimes on it and important information. Trump is hiding that full transcript information illegally on a hidden server that it should never have been put on as its against White House protocol.

Again I ask what would you do if a first hand witness said Hillary has committed a crime and is hiding the full transcript illegally on a sever it shouldn't be on as its against White House protocol? Then Hilary puts out a heavily edited transcript with large sections missing. Would you accept that clears Hillary's name?

Don’t you see why that is a problem? Why are you ok with Trump doing that? Why don’t you want to see the full real transcript? Are you scared of what it might show? Do you not want to see the truth?

How do you know it was heavily edited? And it was completely unredacted?!?!

NSC official Morrison also testified that the transcript released by the White House was accurate

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/timot...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

"I want to be clear, I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed,” former NSC Senior Director for European Affairs Tim Morrison testified

Still, even with only the witnesses claiming Trump did wrong, there is still no clear indication of a crime. The only thing that might have made it a crime (a quid pro quo statement) was not there. We're left listening to he-said-she-said but dems will only leak what they want people to hear in favour of their case. They're not leaking this testimony. They're not leaking the portions of testimony from their favored witnesses where Republicans call them out and utterly wreck their credibility. They even voted against introducing exculpatory information (disproving the accusations against Trump) from being introduced into evidence.

Zelensky said there was no pressure, there was no meeting, aid was released. The guy they say was being bribed said he wasn't bribed, it's so laughable. You calling him a liar?

And again why do you keep saying he was guilty of fraud, he settled a lawsuit because his people moved money in an improper way, money wasn't misappropriated it was just moved the wrong way
 
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The fact they're saying Billy Graham would have endorsed the impeachment, which is clearly false since the son has said he was a big Trump supporter

I mean the fact that you guys immediately cite fake news on a fox news link before you even click on it, even if it's a video of someone like Bill Barr moving their lips with words coming out

You do realise you can support somebody but then when you see proof that he has committed a crime and isnt the person you thought he was you are allowed to agree that he should be impeached don't you? Or do you think once you support Trump that means you must support him for life no matter what he does?
 
1) Republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses, only a few on a white list were allowed

Yes they were. They just weren't allowed to call Hunter Biden or the whistleblower. Hunter Biden because that would be a purely political stunt as he has nothing to do with the Trump phone call or Trump holding back aid or. WH visit. The whistleblower as the GOP would just use the occasion to out them and with the other fact witnesses that came forward the whistleblower wasn't required.

2) Schiff was repeatedly shouting down questions

He only stopped them when they were either trying to out the whistleblower or weren't respecting the rules, rules put in place by the GOP back in 2015.


3) Protecting secret government information by storing phone calls on a secret government server is a crime now? Meanwhile Hillary sells government information by putting it on an internet connected server in a private home

Haha you mean those 5 investigations by the Congress and the FBI that found no evidence of a crime or anything they could even throw at her (congress that is). Selling? Please what a load of rubbish. Clinton was foolish, though not as foolish as Trump who continues to this day to use his unsecured mobile phone.

4) He released the full transcript, showing no crime

They never released the full transcript. The phone call lasted 30 mins, there was 10 minutes of transcript. Though in the released version he clearly says "but we need you to do us a favour, though". It is clear as day what Trump wanted, it was testified to by several witnesses. He wanted an announcement on CNN of an investigation, not an actual investigation, just the announcement that he could then use to hit Biden with. The whole move was for his own personal political advantage and not in the interests of the USA. It also was against the NS of the USA as it left an ally without much needed military aid and due to the fact Trump was communicating in the open on mobile phones America's enemies could eavesdrop the calls and then use that knowledge as leverage against Trump. There are still more reasons why this was bad for the US and only good for Trump personally.
 
“False.”
There was a public invite put out and a live TV stream. How can you call that false when millions upon millions have seen the public invite? Trump was clearly invited and told to bring extras with him. He was not refused access or told he cannot bring anyone.


“How do you know it was heavily edited? And it was completely unredacted?!?!”
The version I read which Trump put out was 5 pages and 30mins of talking is not 5 pages of text it’s a lot longer. The version I read that Trump put out says on page 1 this is not exactly the same words as were used originally by Trump.

Do you know what … means? Triple dot means missing text. It means text that has been omitted. Removed. Redacted. The transcript Trump put out has … meaning large amounts of omitted text.

How does Trump putting out a transcript with large amounts of omitted text clear his name? Would you accept Hilary putting out a text with large sections of omitted text as evidence to clear her name?

If there is some other full unedited transcript longer then 5 pages that Trump has put out then I have missed it, so please show it. If all you can point to is that 5 page document that says its not exactly the same words and has omitted text then what I said is correct and you are wrong.

To spell it out to you. The transcript Trump put out had approx. 10mins of text with bits omitted and approx. 20mins of missing text.


“Hillary held classified intel on her own private server, completely different from moving classified calls with foreign governments to a secure server which is standard practice and it's exactly what Obama did too.”
The full transcript is not classified. Trump hiding the full none classified transcript on a classified server is not the same as what Hillary or Obama did. It is not standard practise it is directly against Whitehouse protocol.



“Zelensky said there was no pressure, there was no meeting, aid was released.”
That’s just what he would say if he was under pressure and threats. How often has someone said Trump didn’t do X. Only later on it turned out it was a lie and Trump had really done X. Many times. Based on past history that isn’t enough to clear Trump. EDIT: Think about it, if someone is put under pressure or blackmailed its common for them to say everything is ok when asked even if its not.



“And again why do you keep saying he was guilty of fraud, he settled a lawsuit because his people moved money in an improper way, money wasn't misappropriated it was just moved the wrong way”
He was found guilty and had no choice being found guilty of State & Federal Crimes. He was found guilty of misappropriated use of charity funds. In the judge ruling they gave many examples of fraud and corruption and Trump pleaded guilty. It wasn’t just money moved the wrong way. The judge said Trump used the charity money as little more than a checkbook to serve his personal and business” Trump spent charity money on himself, his family and his business which is full on fraud and corruption and the Judge listed examples. The judge also said “shocking pattern of illegality”” “repeated and willful self-dealing” So yes he was guilty of fraud and corruption.
 
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It's actually painful to read some of the replies in this thread. I know the SC regulars have risen to a zen-like acceptance of CT nutbags but for the rest of us it's pretty hard going reading the mmj/caracus2k/tang0 trifecta of craziness.
 
I hope he survives because my gut feeling is that this is just a whitch hunt. My other gut hopess he gets the boot because his outbursts are hilarious. All in all he is such a Muppet I think he will speak himself guilty, even if innocent.
 
The fact they're saying Billy Graham would have endorsed the impeachment, which is clearly false since the son has said he was a big Trump supporter

I mean the fact that you guys immediately cite fake news on a fox news link before you even click on it, even if it's a video of someone like Bill Barr moving their lips with words coming out

It's an editorial (ie an opinion piece). Nothing about it is "fake news".

That guy's son thinking his dad would have had a different opinion to what the article states does not make the article any more or less "fake".
 
It's actually painful to read some of the replies in this thread. I know the SC regulars have risen to a zen-like acceptance of CT nutbags but for the rest of us it's pretty hard going reading the mmj/caracus2k/tang0 trifecta of craziness.

It is odd.

Recent politics seems to have made people reject objective reality to a degree I havent seen before.
 
It's actually painful to read some of the replies in this thread. I know the SC regulars have risen to a zen-like acceptance of CT nutbags but for the rest of us it's pretty hard going reading the mmj/caracus2k/tang0 trifecta of craziness.

Zen like acceptance? Pull the other one.

SC, particularly the current POTUS and brexit threads are egregious echo chambers of single minded group think.

Blatant nonsense and falsehoods all too often go completely unchallenged but for the input of 'crazies'.

Sign of the times I guess.... The TDS bunch think there onto a winner because having had the most scrutinised POTUS ever, subject to allegations retrospectively claimed to be Trump generated conspiracy theories, they have finally dredged up something they think is impeachment worthy.

Of course we know the cart was always before the horse in this regard with the Dems actively pursuing impeachment from day one and just looking for something , anything to use for that purpos. WWhich was always their aim... To subvert an election result they lost and didn't like and to ensure that it could not happen to them again with the same man 'by any means necessary'.

And what have the dems actually got?

POTUS putting pressure of the new leader of a foreign country to investigate the appointment of a former VP's son to an energy company?

An obviously corrupt appointment and one that, if the tables were reversed, would have received far more media scrutiny with their being relentless calls for Ukraine to robustly investigate.

But whay do we get from the bulk of the media.....

'There' s no (concrete) evidence that Bidens job at Burisa was the result of daddies specific role in the Ukraine or that it was corrupt and we are a bit undecided about whether there's a conflict of interest'

Basically he usual 'there's nothing to see here folks' from what might as well be the media arm of the Democratic party

If i was a US citizen i would want there to be scrutiny as to why Hunter Biden suddenly took up a job on a board in an energy company, itself mired in controversy, in the Ukraine of all places shortly after daddy took up a specific role leading US foreign policy with the country and with himself 'dealing' with the corruption issues present there by.

Biden jnr had no experience in the gas industry or any other connections to the Ukraine beyond his father.

So i dont find it particularly surprising that the apparent reaction from a large chunk of the US populace re this allegation effectively anounts to a shoulder shrug whilst they are wondering what the big deal is....
 
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And what have the dems actually got?

Clear evidence of two crimes, with testimony from multiple first hand witnesses.

POTUS putting pressure of the new leader of a foreign country to investigate the appointment of a former VP's son to an energy company?

POTUS illegally pressured the leader of a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival based on nothing more than a deranged and thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory about the location of the DNC server, and a desperate desire to smear Biden.

An obviously corrupt appointment and one that, if the tables were reversed, would have received far more media scrutiny with their being relentless calls for Ukraine to robustly investigate.

If the appointment was obviously corrupt, why didn't the Ukrainians do anything about it? At most you can say it was nepotism (which in my view it certainly was) but I've seen no evidence that it was illegal.

Biden jnr had no experience in the gas industry or any other connections to the Ukraine beyond his father.

Irrelevant, he didn't need it. He was a board member, not a CEO. It's very common for board members to have no relevant industry experience. He did, however, have board experience, and that's usually what companies look for when recruiting board members.

This has all been explained multiple times in the Trump thread, as you well know.
 
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