Donald Trump

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If the Democrats had actual evidence of wrongdoing and Republican's voted it down at the senate level out of blind loyalty they would get destroyed in the next elections, much like Democrats are going to be as things currently stand. Pelosi delaying things to find evidence after already having voted to impeach, what a joke it makes a mockery of the US justice system.

The base of either side will likely not change their minds but the undecided/neutral voters who can swing elections in either direction will vote on the side of respecting Democracy and sanity just as they did in the recent UK elections.

The Democrat party policy for 2020 so far is either "don't vote for Trump he's evil and you'd be a Nazi" or "free stuff for anyone socialism rules" depending on which extreme end of the party you look at. They have nothing sensible to offer just constantly telling people Trump is working for Russia, if he is then Russia must want the US to have a strong economy for some strange reason.

Seriously? This is as partisan a time as I have ever known in my 49 years. Let's not forget that the GOP basically ran a House and Senate campaign of obstruction to anything Obama put forward from 2012 onwards. The GOP were NEVER going to vote for impeachment or to convict. Trump wouldn't allow that and anyone that did/does would get his full wrath on twitter and at rallies. Unlike the Dems, some of which not only voted to impeach Clinton but also insisted he apologise for lying and having an affair. Can you imagine the GOP telling Trump to admit he was wrong? LOL! As for whether they pay a price for this come Nov 2020, only time will tell. Some in purple states like Collins will be worried.

Pelosi is talking of delaying because McConnell is refusing to say what the format of the trial will be. All he is saying is that he is working hand in hand with the WH. The foreman of the jury is working hand in hand with the lawyers for the person on trial. Yeah that isn't anything to raise concern. :rolleyes: She has said that they won't announce the House managers until McConnell agrees to the format of the trial.

You have no idea what is going to happen in Nov 2020. None of us do. We may not know who the candidate is until June, although we'll probably know before that. Then the real campaigning starts. At the moment the candidates are looking for voters from Democratic voters, after Junes they have to start appealing to swing voters as well.

Who knows how many more scandals will happen from Trump between now and Nov. His tax cases will be through the SC as will whether he can be investigated by a State grand jury, those results will be announced in June. On previous SC rulings it doesn't look good. Both around the Clinton and Nixon impeachments the SC voted 9-0 against the President and that he could be investigated.
 
Doing what?


Why don't watch the videos and find out.....

But I and my Family are very happy with Trump.

$18 TRILLION gain in Net Worth
6.8 MILLION new jobs (50 yr low in unemployment)
7.3 MILLION Job Openings
China Imports DOWN 23%
530,000 new Manufacturing Jobs
3.7% Working/Middle Class Wage Growth
$2,000 tax cut
 
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Pelosi delaying things to find evidence after already having voted to impeach, what a joke it makes a mockery of the US justice system..
Accept for that’s not what happened and it’s not a joke if you understand it. First hand witness’s which are evidence in themselves said there was crimes commented and the evidence is over there. Trump then illegally hid that evidence. Refused to hand any of it over to congress, ordered Whitehouse staff not to cooperate with congress which in itself is an impeachable offense.

Trump in the end got impeached for acting like a dictator causing obstruction of congress and stopping congress doing their job of oversight which is extremely important.

Given that Trump has already been guilty of fraud and corruption recently why do you think it’s acceptable for Trump to hide evidence and order staff not to cooperate? What makes you think Trump is innocent? If he e is innocent why wont we cooperate with congress oversight like he is meant to and why wont he had over the evidence like he is meant to? Apart from to hide the truth of real crimes what possible reason could there be for Trump to act like that?
 
Accept for that’s not what happened and it’s not a joke if you understand it. First hand witness’s which are evidence in themselves said there was crimes commented and the evidence is over there. Trump then illegally hid that evidence. Refused to hand any of it over to congress, ordered Whitehouse staff not to cooperate with congress which in itself is an impeachable offense.

Trump in the end got impeached for acting like a dictator causing obstruction of congress and stopping congress doing their job of oversight which is extremely important.

Given that Trump has already been guilty of fraud and corruption recently why do you think it’s acceptable for Trump to hide evidence and order staff not to cooperate? What makes you think Trump is innocent? If he e is innocent why wont we cooperate with congress oversight like he is meant to and why wont he had over the evidence like he is meant to? Apart from to hide the truth of real crimes what possible reason could there be for Trump to act like that?

You keep repeating the same old rubbish

1/ There were no first hand witnesses that could testify he did anything wrong, just people with 2nd/3rd hand knowledge and "presumed" quid pro quo

2/ He didn't hide anything, he released the actual evidence which stumped the Dems and were forced to hide the whistleblower's testimony, because he supposedly said he forced Zelensky into investigations, and the transcript proved otherwise.

For some reason you've created a conspiracy that he's hiding something.

3/ He never got found guilty of fraud and corruption, so stop saying it

4/ Why should he cooperate when the whole thing is a trap, Trump's not stupid. It's like the loaded question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

5/ Nervous Nancy has delayed because as soon as Trump insisted on the impeachment process going to trial, she refused to send impeachment articles to the senate. And by supporting his impeachment, Trump has now effectively gotten the Democrats to oppose it. It's hilarious, Trump
 
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If by some miracle he is innocent someone needs to sit him down and tell him to stop acting like a guilty person 24/7. In-fact they should probably just tell him that regardless of his guilt or innocence

It isn't really about being innocent or guilty though, seems pretty obvious he did it and that ought to be considered crossing a line - it's just politics though.
 
...subject to allegations retrospectively claimed to be Trump generated conspiracy theories, they have finally dredged up something they think is impeachment worthy.

Who’s claiming Trump made them up? The claim is Trump and the GOP are propagating demonstratively false conspiracy theories, counter to their own intelligence service investigations.

The Ukrainian server is a prime example. Senior White House aides have recently pointed out that Trump told them Putin told him about it... Trump is being played, and seems to believe the Russian leader over the US intelligence community. The real worry here is also that Trump himself seems to actually believe it, and is not just using it as a distraction.

POTUS putting pressure of the new leader of a foreign country to investigate the appointment of a former VP's son to an energy company?

POTUS putting pressure on a foreign leader to make a statement that he is starting an investigation into a leading opponent of the POTUS, using government funds as leverage.

Exactly.

Biden jnr had no experience in the gas industry or any other connections to the Ukraine beyond his father.

As someone that works in the gas industry, in a publicly traded company, I can tell you that most of the board of directors of my company have no other experience in the gas industry. Most of them don’t even have technical experience they can use to help either. This is normal, because the idea is if you’re a good leader you’re a good leader, it doesn’t necessarily matter if you don’t know the technical side of things.

So i dont find it particularly surprising that the apparent reaction from a large chunk of the US populace re this allegation effectively anounts to a shoulder shrug whilst they are wondering what the big deal is....

Most of the populous support impeachment. Those that don’t correspond to Trumps base. Those are people like you that either believe in conspiracy theories, the shadow government junk, or have such a hatred of “liberals” (can you really call most of the Dems liberals? They’re more in line with Uk conservatives) that they see Trump as a necessary evil.

Contrary to narrative people like you are trying to spread, the Democrats have been steadfastly against impeachment and have passed up numerous opportunities to impeach Trump. Any other president would have been impeached way before now (starting at the Stormy payments, and including results from the Mueller report) . This was the straw that broke their backs, just too extreme for even them to ignore in this current “climate”.

Whether the trial protects or removes Trump is irrelevant. A president has been impeached for soliciting help from foreign parties, that stops any precedent being set in future.
 
We know the whistleblower was lying and made false statements.



The truth is coming out now.

Wait what? The IG said the whistleblower was correct in the report and that there was "credible" evidence. The whistleblower is irrelevant at this point anyway. The fact witnesses that followed gave the committee everything they needed. Trump did it, tried to hide it and then did everything he could to block congress in their oversight and investigative role.
 

There’s also the fact that two first hand witnesses to the phone call in question pointed out it there was more in the call than the transcript.

Another reason why the Whistleblower was not needed to testify. The investigation had two direct witnesses to the back up the whistleblower statement, which in itself was acknowledged from the start to be based on second hand information.

As usual the story changed. When the Whistleblower report first and out the GOP and president were up in arms claiming it was just a second hand report and unreliable/irrelevant. Subsequently, when two first hand witnesses backed up the claims, the whistleblower was now important again and HAD to testify according to the GOP.

Just another play by the Republicans to try and out the whistleblower - in part to try and slim mud at the investigation, but also to distract from the actual important stuff (you know, like the actual wrongdoing of the president) and to try and threaten other future whistleblowers against coming forwards.
 
Because there was ZERO evidence so the Democrats just pinned whatever they could get away with on him but this whole thing started out with Trump being accused of a Quid Pro Quo which is exactly what Biden has admitted to, on top of that Biden's Quid Pro Quo was blackmailing Ukraine to fire a prosecutor investigating his son for CORRUPTION, Trump simply asked Ukraine to look into that very corruption and the events surrounding it.

Democrats could have unilaterally impeached Trump for simply being elected as president with how deranged they are, it doesn't mean anything if you can't convince the other side with actual evidence.


Except that’s all lies.

I’ll say again as you seem hard of reading.

Biden was following official government policy when he pressured Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who the US Government and numerous European Governments thought was corrupt.

Trump was not following official government policy. In fact he was following a contradictory path to try and force the Ukranian government to announce an investigation into the son of his main political opponent.

One was doing it for government policy, the other was doing it for personal political gain, hence why Trump was impeached for soliciting foreign governments to interfere in the US election.

NOT as you seem to believe, withholding money directly, or pressuring a foreign government.

Don’t take my word for it. Here’s the actual text.

He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage. President Trump also sought to pressure the Government of Ukraine to take these steps by conditioning official United States Government acts of significant value to Ukraine on its public announcement of the investigations. President Trump engaged in this scheme or course of conduct for corrupt purposes in pursuit of personal political benefit. In so doing, President Trump used the powers of the Presidency in a manner that compromised the national security of the United States and undermined the integrity of the United States democratic process. He thus ignored and injured the interests of the Nation.

And again... It’s not the method he used, it’s what he was doing it for. He was soliciting interference in US democracy to further his own reelection.

Second, the other impeachment article is broadly related to your so called lack of evidence. Trump and his aides have refused to testify, refused to release documents and refused to allow several other witnesses take the stand. Hence the “Obstruction of Congress” article - which coincidentally (as you like the Clintons so much) is similar to one of the articles served against Clinton in his impeachment trial, basically the Dems just followed the Republicans lead on this.

As part of this impeachment inquiry, the Committees undertaking the investigation served subpoenas seeking documents and testimony deemed vital to the inquiry from various Executive Branch agencies and offices, and current and former officials.

In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the "sole Power of Impeachment" vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.

Full text here: https://www.npr.org/2019/12/10/786579846/read-articles-of-impeachment-against-president-trump

If this was a criminal investigation he would have been arrested and tried for obstruction of justice. Hopefully, when he’s not president, this may well happen in the future.

Nothin to do with derangement, everything to do with your (willful?) failure to comprehend what he’s actually being impeached for.
 
“1/ There were no first hand witnesses that could testify he did anything wrong, just people with 2nd/3rd hand knowledge and "presumed" quid pro quo”
The first hand witness’s couldn’t testify in person due to a law that the Republicans put in place and due to Trump threatening the witness. But there was first hand witnesses which listened in on the phone call and said there was more. Combined that with Trumps edited transcript with omitted text and it’s no longer clear he did nothing wrong.

What about the two people that said they listened in on the phone call and there was more then what was in the transcript? Doesn’t that not mean anything to you? The Transcript Trump put out clearly had admitted text.



“2/ He didn't hide anything, he released the actual evidence which stumped the Dems and were forced to hide the whistleblower's testimony, because he supposedly said he “
Then where is unedited full transcript? Where are the files he moved illegally to that server directly against Whitehouse protocol? Where is the omitted text from the transcript which the first hand witness’s said contains more?

Did you understand anything explained do you? Trump released an edited transcript with the bulk of the text omitted. Page 1 of that transcript says this is not exactly the same words as were used originally by Trump combined with all the omitted parts.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? Are you unable to admit to being wrong? Like I said if I missed a full transcript show me. Otherwise you are wrong.



“3/ He never got found guilty of fraud and corruption, so stop saying it”
Why should I stop saying he was guilty of State & Federal Crimes? Just because the truth hits a nerve with you, I am not going to stop saying the truth. Trump was found guilty at the supreme court and in November 2019 they even listed what he did along with the judgement.

What do you call stealing vast sums of charity money and using it for personal gain? To me that is fraud and corruption.

This is not a full list just a few examples.

Trump took vast sums of charity money to spend on his private business Mar-A-Lago resort and his Trump National Golf Club. How is that anything other than fraud or corruption? It has nothing what so ever to do with the charity funds.

Trump also took more charity money to buy a self portrait, pay his sons monthly club fee’s, buy sports paraphernalia and champagne all of which have nothing do with the charity or what the funds are meant to be used for.

In the settlement Trump admitted several instances of illegal activity and the judge called the charity nothing more then Trumps personal check book. When someone steals that much charity money how can you not call it fraud and corruption? What do you call it?



“4/ Why should he cooperate when the whole thing is a trap, Trump's not stupid. It's like the loaded question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
Or you know he is guilty which is why he is not cooperating. Why trust Trump after he stole vast sums of charity money and spent it on himself and his family. Don’t you know what type of person Trump is? He is the type of person to cheats on his wife multiple times and steal charity money. Yet you want to take his word over the truth.


“5/ Nervous Nancy has delayed because as soon as Trump insisted on the impeachment process going to trial, she refused to send impeachment articles to the senate. And by supporting his impeachment, Trump has now effectively gotten the Democrats to oppose it. It's hilarious, Trump”
She delayed because the republicans said they wouldn’t give a fair trial and wouldn’t say what type of trail. Calling her Nervous Nancy just makes you look like a delusional sheep. It also looks like she is timing it so she can bring it at the same time as the other supreme court cases against Trumps finish and come to light. Nancy is not stupid she is lining her cards up.
 
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Exactly, he was impeached because someone claimed without evidence that he was withholding money for political favours, dur!

Which is completely unrelated to what Biden did.

The “someone claimed without evidence” part is irrelevant. Someone made a credible whistleblower report (which stated they hadn’t heard the call directly) that started the investigation. This was the catalyst that started the investigation that found the claim was true. Unfortunately due to the willful obstruction by the president and his aides important documentation is still forthcoming.

In any other country the police would be knocking on Trumps door and raiding his offices, but in the US it’s considered the houses job to do the investigating while he’s president.
 
TDS logic....

It's too expensive to use tax payer money to adhere to the constitution @ $3m.

Also TDS logic....

It's fine for Trump to take millions of dollars in taxpayer money to prop up his (inevitably) failing hotels.

If that money is so important then perhaps Trump can forgo one of his Golf trips to pay for it? ;)

Isn’t he in 9 figures now for his weekly trips to the Golf course?
 
If the Democrats had actual evidence of wrongdoing and Republican's voted it down at the senate level out of blind loyalty they would get destroyed in the next elections, much like Democrats are going to be as things currently stand. Pelosi delaying things to find evidence after already having voted to impeach, what a joke it makes a mockery of the US justice system.

The base of either side will likely not change their minds but the undecided/neutral voters who can swing elections in either direction will vote on the side of respecting Democracy and sanity just as they did in the recent UK elections.

The Democrat party policy for 2020 so far is either "don't vote for Trump he's evil and you'd be a Nazi" or "free stuff for anyone socialism rules" depending on which extreme end of the party you look at. They have nothing sensible to offer just constantly telling people Trump is working for Russia, if he is then Russia must want the US to have a strong economy for some strange reason.

Except the polls currently show more independents supporting impeachment than against it (latest one being 47% for and 41% against), so your assertion is currently wrong (again).
 
Why don't watch the videos and find out.....

But I and my Family are very happy with Trump.

$18 TRILLION gain in Net Worth
6.8 MILLION new jobs (50 yr low in unemployment)
7.3 MILLION Job Openings
China Imports DOWN 23%
530,000 new Manufacturing Jobs
3.7% Working/Middle Class Wage Growth
$2,000 tax cut

And? What does this have to do with the impeachment. Aside from the fact they named the alleged whistleblower (showing their contempt for the whole thing and of anonymity), the initial complaint has been shown to be accurate.

But if we’re bringing up allegations about those overseeing the impeachment we should probably bring up Nunes, who seems to be embroiled in the events that lead to the impeachment himself...

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/devin-nunes-spent-57000-flights-europe-allegedly-investigate-bidens-1473765?amp=1

Rep. Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican member on the House Intelligence Committee, spent nearly $57,000 on a trip to Europe for him and his staff to allegedly investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, records show.

The figures seem to confirm allegations made by Lev Parnas—a Ukrainian-born American who worked as a "fixer" for Rudy Giuliani before being indicted on criminal charges—who said that he helped Nunes arrange meetings with various Ukrainian officials to dig up dirt on Biden.

Parnas said he met Nunes in a secretive trip to Vienna, Austria, between November and December 2018, and put him in touch with former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Victor Shokin—the lawyer who was ousted from his position in 2016 after pressure from Western leaders, including Biden, who said he was not doing enough to combat corruption

Nunes defence? That he’d never been to Ukraine..
 
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Why don't watch the videos and find out.....

But I and my Family are very happy with Trump.

$18 TRILLION gain in Net Worth
6.8 MILLION new jobs (50 yr low in unemployment)
7.3 MILLION Job Openings
China Imports DOWN 23%
530,000 new Manufacturing Jobs
3.7% Working/Middle Class Wage Growth
$2,000 tax cut

Utterly distasteful individual that you are, your opinion is no surprise.
 
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