Don't Pay UK

[dowie]

This campaign seems to have trended today (in part as a result of BP posting record profits):

Don't Pay

A thousand new beginnings

dontpay.uk

It seems to be a bit like those occasional facebook posts which would pop up claiming that if everyone decides to not buy petrol on some particular day then magically fuel will become more affordable.

It's not quite clear what the people behind this current campaign expect to happen - some pressure on the government re: the price cap? Various energy companies have already gone bankrupt so there isn't exactly much wriggle room there, it's not sustainable to sell to consumers at a loss.

Do they want action from the government to help people with bills? We've had the rebate on council tax and the fuel duty cut, perhaps the government could fund some more gestures like that but that isn't going to change the reality that energy is getting more expensive right now, it's just going to provide a little bit of help.

This could potentially affect people quite badly, firstly with bills increasing and plenty of people not exactly great with money as it is then not paying can lead to some substantial arrears, I doubt very much that most of the people who decide to take part in a bill strike will be diligently putting aside and not touching the money they would have otherwise paid their bills with.

This sort of thing could lead to bad credit, referral to debt collection agencies/CCJs etc. and indeed getting put onto a pre-payment meter.

 

[MatsyLR]

It happened in the 80s I believe and it forced change.
The idea is that the energy company's would have a massive loss suddenly which may force something to happen.
Although I suppose they are forgetting that the energy company's are not the ones setting the prices as much as Joe public wants to believe they are.

Joe public also thinks energy is being sold at a profit to residential customers which is very very far from the truth.

Even the movement itself doesn't seem to understand wholesale costs are massive and even with the increases there is no profit in it for the residential side. Cash cow is used as a buzz word even though its not the case.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Honestly I don't think it will be a choice for many at the end of the day. They wont be able to pay simply because its impossible for them to do so/afford it.

 

[danlightbulb]

The campaign is targeting a million people. I posted it the other day in the energy thread.

Idea being if so many people participate then they can't cut off or take that many people to court.

It was met with skepticism but it does seem to be gaining momentum and I'd be happy to see it cause some concern and disruption at the Government level.

 

[Craterloads]

It happened in the 80s I believe and it forced change.
The idea is that the energy company's would have a massive loss suddenly which may force something to happen.
Although I suppose they are forgetting that the energy company's are not the ones setting the prices as much as Joe public wants to believe they are.

Joe public also thinks energy is being sold at a profit to residential customers which is very very far from the truth.

Even the movement itself doesn't seem to understand wholesale costs are massive and even with the increases there is no profit in it for the residential side. Cash cow is used as a buzz word even though its not the case.

How does one make record profits if not sold at a profit?

Serious question BP must be making masssive amounts of cash somewhere down the line?

 

[danlightbulb]

How does one make record profits if not sold at a profit?

Serious question BP must be making masssive amounts of cash somewhere down the line?

Some people seem happy that the wholesale companies and energy producers are making billions because 'its just the market' and use the fact retail companies don't make much profit as justification for them not being made to suffer through non-payment.

The retailer companies are for the most part child companies of major producers so I don't buy that argument personally.

 

[dowie]

How does one make record profits if not sold at a profit?

Serious question BP must be making masssive amounts of cash somewhere down the line?

I think people are conflating different things, BP is a massive global company engaged in oil and gas exploration, refining, trading etc.

That they've made massive profits doesn't mean that the company supplying your energy is making massive profits nor negate that energy, fule etc.. has increased in price, again plenty of energy companies have gone bust!

 

[Maundie]

I think people are conflating different things, BP is a massive global company engaged in oil and gas exploration, refining, trading etc.

That they've made massive profits doesn't mean that the company supplying your energy is making massive profits nor negate that energy, fule etc.. has increased in price, again plenty of energy companies have gone bust!

You had to ruin it by bringing facts into a massive hyperbole thread about the people socking it to the Government, shame on you

 

[Doobedoo]

The fact still remains someone in the supply chain is making massive profits at the expense of people all over the World. Not just us funnily enough all across Europe people are being ripped off, in the USA people have seen record prices at the pump.

It has to start somewhere and the only place it can for people is from the people they purchase from. Wether it’s them who is profiting is kind of irrelevant at this point, a stand is being made to put pressure on the government to do what they are mandated to do. That is to serve the public and put some real pressure on the profiteers.

 

[Craterloads]

I think people are conflating different things, BP is a massive global company engaged in oil and gas exploration, refining, trading etc.

That they've made massive profits doesn't mean that the company supplying your energy is making massive profits nor negate that energy, fule etc.. has increased in price, again plenty of energy companies have gone bust!

Do we know where the profits are being made?

Is it a case of the big boys making a killing with wholesale pricing to retail suppliers. With the cover of saying energy retailers are barely making a profit when in fact they are doing it before them, which ultimately affects the end customer.

Putting a intermediary between you and the customer to shield yourself from criticism.

That’s a question rather than a statement.

 

[200sols]

Do we know where the profits are being made?

Is it a case of the big boys making a killing with wholesale pricing to retail suppliers. With the cover of saying energy retailers are barely making a profit when in fact they are doing it before them, which ultimately affects the end customer.

Putting a intermediary between you and the customer to shield yourself from criticism.

That’s a question rather than a statement.

It is all traded on the open market, the companies themselves are not setting any prices. This is what we signed up for, what we are seeing now is a political failure over many decades leaving us in a poor energy situation.

 

[Craterloads]

It is all traded on the open market, the companies themselves are not setting any prices. This is what we signed up for, what we are seeing now is a political failure over many decades leaving us in a poor energy situation.

They must be getting it cheaper and selling it for a lot more if they are making 6.9b in profit each quarter.

 

[200sols]

They must be getting it cheaper and selling it for a lot more if they are making 6.9b in profit each quarter.

They arent getting it cheaper, the price they are being paid on the market is higher and they don't set that price.

 

[413x]

I think this movement is going to cause problems.

Problems for those with something to lose (they need credit)
Problems for the government

Who it won't hurt is the energy producers/extractors. They can sell world wide.


Most of these people wrongly think if we don't buy they will have to Lower their prices as no one will be buying their product. They don't understand that the producers have a world wide customer base.sometimes it's hard reading the conversations around it. As there's so much misinformation

 

[413x]

They must be getting it cheaper and selling it for a lot more if they are making 6.9b in profit each quarter.

Of course. Its not suddenly got 5* costlier to to extract in the last 12 months. You've lost a massive producer (Russia) so there's less product but same number of customers.
And that product is essential.

So, like with any other product openly traded, price goes up.

 

[Hotwired]

Dumbest protest I've seen since 2016

So you don't pay your bill (which is not to BP) and it's abundantly clear who you are and where you live.

 

[Doobedoo]

Of course. Its not suddenly got 5* costlier to to extract in the last 12 months. You've lost a massive producer (Russia) so there's less product but same number of customers.
And that product is essential.

So, like with any other product openly traded, price goes up.

Then profits must remain the same. No?

 

[Reuben klang]

It’s electric prices that should be the issue, the vast majority of UK electricity is renewable, the stupid regs that say it has to be the equivalent price to gas is stupid as.

 

[200sols]

Then profits must remain the same. No?

How so? Extraction costs remain largely similar but market price for extracted product is massively higher.

Dumb scenario.

Before : Gas price on open market $1 - Extraction cost $0.10
Now : Gas price on open market $4 - Extraction cost $0.11

You see that have made record profits without changing a thing.

 

[Doobedoo]

It’s electric prices that should be the issue, the vast majority of UK electricity is renewable, the stupid regs that say it has to be the equivalent price to gas is stupid as.

That’s a problem when you let private install and operate renewable energy. Like allowing shell to ‘invest’ in renewable energy to mitigate windfall tax. Guess what they get to own and profit from that too.