Don't Pay UK

Doobedoo said:
So that’s a different matter. Ok so we are not being told to ration, we’re fine as long as we pay more than others.

But some can’t pay more. Some can barely pay for what they had, some are not going to be able to pay for the increase in gas, petrol, mortgage/rent, food and the predicted 15% inflation. So some are seriously considering not paying at all.
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It's not a different matter, it's THE matter people have been trying to explain to you. We don't live in a bubble, we're not isolated from external market effects for energy.

Which do you think is politically and practically the better scenario at a national level - that we secure our supplies but it's expensive and we have to find a way of dealing with that or that we refuse to pay market rate for wholesale gas and tell everyone there's not enough gas to go around this winter and it'll be getting rationed?

I can guarantee if you polled people on whether they'd rather have gas and complain about the cost or just complain about not having enough gas entirely, they'd prefer to have the product and figure out how to pay for it later.
 
BowdonUK said:
If everyone didn't spend money on certain services, like petrol, or going to a particular superstore, for 1 day, it would put a dent in the business spreadsheet.

The mere threat that people can all get together and do something at the same time is what the big boys fear.
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Well yes strength has always been in numbers which why I find certain attitudes so strange. It’s why the medias coverage over the rail strikes and against Mick Lynch was so negative. They know the power of collective action so it must be demonised and nipped in the bud at the earliest opportunity.
 
BowdonUK said:
If everyone didn't spend money on certain services, like petrol, or going to a particular superstore, for 1 day, it would put a dent in the business spreadsheet.

The mere threat that people can all get together and do something at the same time is what the big boys fear.
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The next day they would buy what they needed anyway. You aren’t reducing demand doing a 1 day protest
 
Kenai said:
It's not a different matter, it's THE matter people have been trying to explain to you. We don't live in a bubble, we're not isolated from external market effects for energy.

Which do you think is politically and practically the better scenario at a national level - that we secure our supplies but it's expensive and we have to find a way of dealing with that or that we refuse to pay market rate for wholesale gas and tell everyone there's not enough gas to go around this winter and it'll be getting rationed?

I can guarantee if you polled people on whether they'd rather have gas and complain about the cost or just complain about not having enough gas entirely, they'd prefer to have the product and figure out how to pay for it later.
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How about we say we’re all in it together. No profits for energy producers while the issues are present. We the citizens will ration, we’ll pay more but your not to make silly money off the back of it.

Fairs, fair we’re in this together and you already have far too much, keep what you’ve earned upto now, but profits are put on hold for the foreseeable.

Job done win win.
 
Doobedoo said:
How about we say we’re all in it together. No profits for energy producers while the issues are present. We the citizens will ration, we’ll pay more but your not to make silly money off the back of it.

Fairs, fair we’re in this together and you already have far too much, keep what you’ve earned upto now, but profits are put on hold for the foreseeable.

Job done win win.
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Good luck getting that agreed on a global scale in a free market, that's absolutely fairy tale thinking.
 
dowie said:
I think people are conflating different things, BP is a massive global company engaged in oil and gas exploration, refining, trading etc.

That they've made massive profits doesn't mean that the company supplying your energy is making massive profits nor negate that energy, fule etc.. has increased in price, again plenty of energy companies have gone bust!
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You say that, but fuels still gone up 25% give or take.
 
Doobedoo said:
Of course because they’ve all got fingers in the greasy pies. They want their cake and to eat it.
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Nothing to do with that, what you're suggesting requires global agreement of virtually every country in the world to not pay more than each other to secure energy in their country.

You can't force the energy companies to refuse more money if someone else offers it instead of us.

If it was a solely national problem, within the scope of a single government you might be able to make half an argument for that to work but not on the scale that you're proposing.
 
Kenai said:
Good luck getting that agreed on a global scale in a free market, that's absolutely fairy tale thinking.
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TBF, it isn't a global issue. It's a localised issue in and around Europe. Gas prices are higher than average in the US, but aren't anything crazy. And Russia has started doing more business in the East, meaning those nations are benefitting from (at least some of) the supply that Europe is losing.

There are limits to how much gas can be moved, within nations, between nations, and across oceans. Those limits are a large part of the reason why Europe is being hit so hard; it's only possible to buy so much gas from non-Russian sources without new infrastructure.

But you would still be need broad agreement across Europe and surrounding nations. And all of the nations would have to be willing to accept rationing and the long-term negative consequences for investment. Realistically, I don't think gas rationing to help the EU and the poor is an idea that would play well in this country :p
 
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Kenai said:
Nothing to do with that, what you're suggesting requires global agreement of virtually every country in the world to not pay more than each other to secure energy in their country.

You can't force the energy companies to refuse more money if someone else offers it instead of us.

If it was a solely national problem, within the scope of a single government you might be able to make half an argument for that to work but not on the scale that you're proposing.
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We’re talking about Europe but yes assuming each country would prefer what is in their interest and most certainly the interest of those that elected them rather than maintaining or even increasing the profit margins of the energy supply chain.

No of course you can think of profit mongers as children. Of course they will eat as much chocolate and sweeties as they can get there hands on. It’s up to responsible parent to stop them and set them back on the right path of carrots and broccoli.
 
McPhee said:
But you would still be need broad agreement across Europe and surrounding nations. And all of the nations would have to be willing to accept rationing and the long-term negative consequences for investment. Realistically, I don't think gas rationing to help the EU and the poor is an idea that would play well in this country :p
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The negative consequences for investment? That sounds a bit like if you don’t play with the rules I want to I’m taking my ball home. Yeah your going to walk away from billions. Ok mate.
 
Delvis said:
You say that, but fuels still gone up 25% give or take.
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Another thing that doesn't make sense is, the standing charges have almost doubled for gas and electric, however maintaining the pipes and lines in this country haven't changed since the price increase. It seems they're limited at what rate they can sell the energy at so they've upped the standing charges to claw some of that back via a loophole.
 
moogle said:
Another thing that doesn't make sense is, the standing charges have almost doubled for gas and electric, however maintaining the pipes and lines in this country haven't changed since the price increase. It seems they're limited at what rate they can sell the energy at so they've upped the standing charges to claw some of that back via a loophole.
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No it’s to pay for all the energy companies that went bust. Not sure how long we have to keep paying it though I’m not sure if the figures have been published.
 
Doobedoo said:
No it’s to pay for all the energy companies that went bust. Not sure how long we have to keep paying it though I’m not sure if the figures have been published.
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I seeee, that might explain it. Still Ofgem's fault for allowing so many to not have a strong backup plan and go bust. Now paying £130 each month where it was £60 this time last year.
 
moogle said:
I seeee, that might explain it. Still Ofgem's fault for allowing so many to not have a strong backup plan and go bust. Now paying £130 each month where it was £60 this time last year.
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It’s going to be tough mate. We are heading for a recession it seems. Stop paying for all non essential stuff sooner rather than later. If you have sky take your money away from them, same as Netflix ect. Reduce how much you spend with Amazon these greedy mofos need to stop being fed.
 
McPhee said:
But you would still be need broad agreement across Europe and surrounding nations. And all of the nations would have to be willing to accept rationing and the long-term negative consequences for investment. Realistically, I don't think gas rationing to help the EU and the poor is an idea that would play well in this country :p
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Actually the UK is exporting gas to the EU from our grid. Permissions have been given and the pipeline is open.

So get away with your petty Brexit peevishness. :p

UK maximizing gas export capacity to mainland Europe: National Grid

The UK has long standing gas emergency procedures in place, including load shedding on interconnectors, but for now is maximizing export capacity available to mainland Europe, a National Grid spokespe
www.spglobal.com www.spglobal.com

We have been exporting 75 million cubic metres of gas to Belgium and Holland through our interconnectors every day
 
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moogle said:
I seeee, that might explain it. Still Ofgem's fault for allowing so many to not have a strong backup plan and go bust. Now paying £130 each month where it was £60 this time last year.
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That increase isn’t due to a 20p a day increase in SC though is it
 
200sols said:
We did have a V shape recovery. I don't think you can pin this on Rishi, the seeds were sown decades ago and lead us to this point.
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we didn’t though. We still aren’t back to pre pandemic levels and we dropped the biggest drop. Whereas all our neighbours recovered back to pre pandemic levels last year and have grown since.

its basically we have been sick ever since 2016. It’s not been that noticeable but covid showed it up for what it was and now everything is creaking and falling apart.
 
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