Doubling up speaker cable, improvement I've noticed

[JasonM]

You lost me at "interconnects" and "resolving".

However I would imagine there is no difference in sound between the cheap RCA cables and the expensive RCA cables

I find that really interesting. The very majority of your posts are high quality, your obviously quite intelligent person, you certainly know a lot computer stuff, i'm not trying to be funny I really mean this.

However your believe these cables sound the same is just so wrong. If you were listening to my HiFi system, I could change your view in under 10 seconds, that's how profound the difference is between these cables.

 

[JasonM]

This one is really going to get you all going.

I've been listening to the new Van Damme Lo-Cap cables (the ones that came today), and my old Van Damme Lo-Cap (with maybe 1000's of hours on it) is identical construction, however the new cables don't sound quite as good as the old one. Old cable is a little warmer, subtle difference but it's there.

I can only put this down to new cables not run in yet.

I know that 95%+ think i'm making all this up. Everything i've put in this thread is the truth. It's the same truth about what PSU or enterprise HDD to buy, where I think Tesla, Nvidia or Apple shares are going. It's the same truth that would tell you how to set you track car up, and what suspension settings you could make. It's same as if I was telling you about software development, and how to code and what neural network model to use.

 

[JasonM]

I wonder if coat hangers need burn in time?

If the people tested on the Sound Guys article thought they sounded good when first used, imagine what they would have thought after thousands of hours!?

I have seen coat hangers in use, it was many years ago and people would fit them in place of broken car aerials. I can't remember if the radio signal sounded better the longer the coat hanger was in use however.

 

[JasonM]

You must have "golden ears" - honestly I've done a similar back to back comparison several times.

Most recently (2 weeks ago) I bought a cheap Class D amplifier to use with an old spare set of speakers, to use outside in the garden.
To test the amplifier, I used some left over ~2m offcuts of DCSk 16 AWG Pure Copper:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00WG9BV4M

Happy with this, I then bought 30m of Amazon Basics 16 Gauge Speaker wire
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006LW0W5Y

Despite using this for 2x 15m runs, and it not even being pure copper (it's copper coated aluminium), it sounds EXACTLY the same.

It's funny you mention DCSK cable, as I run 4mm DCSK on my main system.

Previous I was using whatever cable Yamaha supplied with the speakers in the box (i'm using Yamaha floorstanding speakers). When I switched the 4mm it makes my speakers louder, again it was subtle but it was there, it also had a slight negative effect as it make the treble a little high.

On copper coated aluminium I've noticed difference in this compared to pure copper also, a few years ago I ordered some CCA cable by mistake. My view is the CCA has to be thicker to match the pure copper cable.

But the 16AWG cable it's to thin in my view, i'm curious what wattage speakers are you using this cable on?

Regarding golden ears, you can give me a collection of CD player, or collection of turn tables, and listen to them all, and I will pick out the best ones from the bunch.

Incidentally the best source I've heard was a Pioneer Pl-570 made in late 70's, those turntables sell for well over £1000, I stayed up night in my house listening to Beatles records on it, there is something very special about those old Pioneer high end record players. The sound is almost spiritual, it's like your picking up almost 40 years of whatever was in the record player. The record player had come from an old persons home.

I can tell you the difference between a Maxell chrome tape and a Sony metal tape, of course recorded on a good quality separates tape deck.

Going back to DCSK, this is the reason this thread started. I was going to buy some 2.5mm DCSK cable, however we come out of EU you can't buy it any more, so instead I just doubled up the thinner cable I already had, hence I posted the results on here. And I no longer need 2.5mm as the improvement from doubling is plenty, as it's saved buying better cable.

 

[JasonM]

A pair of small Denons that are apparently rated at 60 Watts

If that 60 watt is in RMS, then 16AWG is not enough. I know on paper they say it's fine, however it's to resistive.

Place the speakers so you can sit or stand between them. Then get a 2.5mm cable, for one of your speakers only, or do a double run of the 1.25mm cable.

Then switch the balance on the amp, you should find the speaker with better / thicker cable is sounding better. You may have to walk away from the room, reset your hearing, then come back to listen again.

 

[JasonM]

Don't forget to get a bunch of people around to do blind testing.

"Reset your hearing"

Come on...

You sometimes have to walk out of the room, say an hour later, then listen again.

When your setting up audio it's possible to get fatigued, so you just have to take a break from it.

I've listened to HiFi systems at 2-3am in the morning, just to re-confirm what I was hearing during the day.

 

[JasonM]

Those Van Damme Lo-Cap custom 55 RCA cables are sensational, if there is any possible downside there is not much high end roll off that won't suit all setups. Not trolling, but please check other reviews of Lo-Cap 55 cables on the internet.

Anyone with a high quality source (so good Turntable, DAC, CD player, higher end sound card), and using those cheap generic RCA cables is probably missing out. These cables are also not that expensive, 1 meter custom cables can be found under £30, if looked after should cables should last 10's of years and can be transferred between equipment.

 

[JasonM]

As I already said, a lot a noise posted in this thread.

 

[JasonM]

Yeah I know. The signal to noise ratio on all your comments is pretty bad.

Whats your problem?

If you have nothing constructive to add then why post.

 

[JasonM]

Your thread and comments are quite entertaining. Your persistence is impressive as well.

It would be nice if you followed this thought process too.

You come into this thread trying to criticise what I've done.

I'm guessing however, that you have no good HiFi or music equipment in your house, it's certainly not setup in anyway.

 

[JasonM]

I can guarantee you that my living room set up is significantly better than your Edifier speakers.

I'm not running Edifier speakers, and you have no idea what else I have in my house.

 

[JasonM]

It's funny, because you have no idea what I've got in my house. But that didn't stop you before.

Hypocrisy much?

It's simple, anyone who cared about audio would not criticise someone posting about better speaker cable, or what I think about those Van Damm interconnects - google reviews on those before you convince yourself they have no benefit.

 

[JasonM]

Speaker cable magic is a meme in the audio world. You can't impose a false dichotomy on me by suggesting I cannot care about audio because I don't believe in magic speaker cables.

Magic speaker cable? This OFC copper cable came from Maplins!

All my speakers are connected by pure copper of a sufficient gauge. Because that's all that matters when it comes to speaker cable.

I've changed the effective gauge from 17 AWG to 14 AWG, you do understand this is the same as a single 14 AWG run? If you understand that thicker OFC copper cable is better, then how could you possibly disagree with what I've done.

My main HiFi uses 4mm DCSK speaker cable BTW.

 

[JasonM]

I credit the success of the speaker wire industry to their expert sales and marketing ability. However, it is my experience that ordinary copper wire, as long as it's heavy enough, is just as good as name brands.

Yes exactly this is 100% correct, and it's what I did.

Also if you read the roger-Russell link he talks about how speaker ohm's effects resistance - as I've already mentioned in this thread, I'm running 6ohm speakers on a 8ohm amp, so my speakers require more current to drive, and he talks about requiring lower resistance cable when driving lower ohm speakers.

 

[JasonM]

Because of the claims you've made about how it changes the sound. You're using audiophoolery buzzwords that have little to no actual meaning.

I said it softened the treble, provided better midrange and bottom end. This is exactly what you would expect from lower resistance speaker cable.

 

[JasonM]

I'd like to hear an explanation of how more sufficient conductor effects the physical performance of a speaker. Please enlighten me.

Go and read the link on post 159 that someone else posted, look in the section on ohm and speaker resistance.

If you don't understand that speaker cable has resistance, and the amount of resistance effects how the speaker is driven, that in turn effects sound, then your lost

 

[JasonM]

Hmmm... speakers require sufficient current. That's how amplifiers drive them. Resistance is futile.

That current can sometimes be impeded by speaker cable that's to thin.

Go back to my opening post. I was originally running 17AWG cable (1.15mm), driving a 40W 6ohm RMS speaker with a 8ohm amp. That's quite a thin cable for this setup, it's perfectly acceptable to expect a benefit from moving to the equivalent of a 14AWG cable.

To understand the amount of power draw a speaker can take. Run the stereo in your car with the engine off, but headlights on at night reflected on say a garage door. If you run the stereo loud enough you will probably see your headlights dip in timing with your music from car stereo.

 

[JasonM]

Don't forget to get a bunch of people around to do blind testing.

I was thinking about this, I think we should take inspiration from Monty Pythons Ministry of Silly Walks. Instead we could have the Ministry of HiFi testing.

How it would work, you would set your HiFi gear up, however before you can have you own view on it, you have to contact the government who send someone around to listen, only if they agree with what you say do your thoughts count.

 

[JasonM]

No, it isn't. That's the problem and that's what i was talking about - the theory is sound but practically no, you're wrong. You're looking at less than half a db loss using a 17AWG cable on that setup. and that's at 20 feet. Those original cables would have be made of cheese for there to be any practical difference.

Your only going from numbers on paper, numbers on paper is not listening.

Why can't you accept I can hear a difference, and it was quite a big difference it unbalanced the speakers when only done on one side.

Remember Tom Hardware did a article saying motherboard sound was as good as sound cards. You know this is not true by all good sound card reviews on OCUK forum. I mention this as what's on paper is not always true.

 

[JasonM]

TOO thin. Yes. I know all about power draw from speakers. I'm a bass player. I use a nice big fat 120W valve amp and very efficient speaker cabinets. Sometimes I do that as loud as I can. That draw is enough to power speakers that rattle the windows in houses 100m from me if I choose at frequencies that no living being on earth can hear. The cable just has to be "enough". It doesn't improve or change after that. The amp has to power the speaker sufficiently. That's it.

Well maybe my 1.15mm cable was not enough. On the 1.15mm cable I could get these speakers very loud, maybe enough to damage them long term. I'm talking about details in treble, better mid range, just better sound quality.

Also not mentioned before. My source is an Asus Essence ST, I'm running Amazon Music HD (flak). On top of this my speakers are on stands, I'm sitting directly between them.