Doubling up speaker cable, improvement I've noticed

[JasonM]

But you have been using numbers yourself, often without sufficient context. I give you context and that's not good enough?

I gave people my speaker wattage / ohms and amp ohms, these have some relativity to the cable I'm running.

Of course it's not good enough, because I'm the person who's can hear the difference. You or no one else can tell me what I'm hearing.

If you think that a cable upgrade can not make a difference. Go on Amazon and search DCSK cable (thats an ordinary pure copper cable) , look at the reviews for 2.5mm, you will find maybe 100 people who say they are having better sound.

This is the situation we are at. It's like me test driving a car, then having a view on how it drives. Then a number of people who have never driven the car, disagree with my view on the car.

 

[JasonM]

because you arent interested in proving anything, you arent interested in in even testing what you think you hear.

So all the people who post on audio forums, or they give reviews on say Amazon. None of these are valid because they never purchased some expensive equipment, then learnt how to set it up, then provided a graph.

So I'm not allowed to have a view because I've not done the above?

I drive a Honda Integra Type R, I run some fast road / track day tyres (Hankook RS2's). When I fitted the tyres I had more grip in corners, would you accept this, or would you like me to put a G Meter in the car and provide some evidence of this?

I'm not selling you anything here, i'm not the Irish guy that randomly knocks on your door and offers to re-tarmac your drive. Are we down to a level we can't begin to believe someone anymore.

We talk about testing, how about one person in this thread, say he might be telling the truth, I'm going to try this myself, and I'll learn something in the process.

 

[JasonM]

Good news I've just found the Keysight Technologies E4438C. This should test the difference my speaker cables made.

It retails for over £22,000, does anyone have one they can lend me?

https://www.electrorent.com/uk/prod...kRYKwwxqU-rMChFdXQHV6YWdrE4CGldhoCkb8QAvD_BwE

 

[JasonM]

I'm a bass player.

This is interesting.

Away from speaker cables, since page 5, I've also been posting about Van Damme Lo-Cap interconnects, as it happens the cable is actually electric guitar cable. Now I think the cables are brilliant as interconnect cables, low noise, warm very detailed. Predictably however most said you can't tell the difference between interconnects, of course none have ever listened to these cables.

Interesting I found an old review from Guitarist magazine, look at page 49 of the PDF

https://www.ansata.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/VanDamme_Catalog.pdf

"Trebles are noticeably cleaner and stronger - party what we expected - but the more surprising revelation is the cleaner, more solid bass."

Now the above is what's happened to audio when used as an interconnect over a common cheap interconnect.

 

[JasonM]

That's the 8th time you've posted in this thread, and still without anything intelligible.

 

[JasonM]

We've got something in common then.

At least I'm not going into other people's thread just to provoke trouble, because that's exactly what your doing here.

You won't find me quoting people with just sign.

 

[JasonM]

Strawman, I never said any of that did I? Here's what i actually said back on the 12th of April:


And we've since had nothing concrete, just your promise that it really really does sound more better.

Jesus, here's me running DTA, monitors, a custom built 10" subwoofer, cat5 speaker cabling I made myself on my pc setup and you're trying to lecture me about audio when i was one of the guys who didnt completely dismiss you at first chance.

James, I've had what appeared half the board against me, so you can understand I've got a bit defensive. Reading your first post, I do agree you were one of the few that did not dismiss my first post, so thank you for that.

Re testing I have no possible way of testing these difference, I don't own a scope or anything like this.

 

[JasonM]

Gearhead guitarists who buy or read "Guitarist Magazine" are the one of the easiest markets to sell to. To a man, they're all looking for something they can buy that they think makes them sound better. Nobody else can hear it and they don't care.

Inogen, thanks for your response and explanation.

The reason I quoted the Guitarist Magazine link I was trying to find something that backed up the differences I noticed. I do agree these magazines also are primary trying to sell products.

I believe you have tried different different interconnects and you can't hear a difference, I respect also your knowledgeable on this subject, and you've spent many hours testing and listening to various equipment over the years.

The thing is I can hear the difference between interconnects, the Van Damme Silver if I switch this on my main system, most people would notice a difference in under 5 seconds.

I'm honestly not trying to be confrontational, I believe your correct, but how does this explain the differences I've hearing.

 

[JasonM]

With this change, it was more subtle. Hard to believe, given that the cables are so different and one is clearly much 'superior'. However, there is a difference. A few in fact. One thing I noticed was that the cymbal crashes in parts of the track become more distinct from one another. I could more easily separate not the initial hit, but the ringing out of the previous hit to the next. Subtle, but seemed to be there. The bass was also less boomy and rounded although still lacked control to be honest. I think that's a characteristic of these speakers. I also compared the left speaker (being fed by the cable) to the right (internally wired). With the new cable, they sound more or less the same musically, with the old cable I notice some of the deficiencies I mentioned above in the left speaker only. One other side effect seemed to be that the volume in the left speaker was louder than the right with the new cable only. I don't know why that would be, but it actually seemed to introduce some imbalance towards the left.

Well firstly, well done and thank you. You took some time to actually test this. So what your describing is exactly what my original thread was about.

The louder volume your referring to is due to reduced cable resistance.

I run some Yamaha speakers, that are better speakers constructed then your Edifier speakers, plus imagine on both speakers, and you would notice even more improvement.

For a moment put yourself in my position. Imagine I never created this thread, instead you made the thread yourself telling people your thoughts on it. Then most of the board lined up to attack you, or say you can't hear these differences - can you understand why I got so defensive.

Now aren't you graceful for my thread, because you have learnt that cable can make a difference. One day you might have some speakers that are passive on both sides, you can remember what happened here, and you can ensure you have better speaker cable to bring out these improvement.

But again really grateful, as your the only person that actually tested this.

 

[JasonM]

What are the other interconnects you're A/Bing with? If they're decent copper and not in some way broken, you won't hear a difference with them and the VD. You won't because there literally and categorically will not be one.

Inogen, I've got access to maybe 10 different makes of RCA interconnects. I've got Belkin, Maplins, RS spares, generic stuff that's given away, then I've interconnects made from Van Damme XKE microphone cable, also as mentioned Van Damme Lo-Cap 55.

There is even a difference between the XKE and the Lo-Cap 55 when used as an interconnect. The Lo-Cap 55 has more refinement in top frequencies.

To prove I do have these cables, here is a small sample of some of my cables.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=VDhvYS1vY0d2MmR2emtfSllYcXVkV1RJSndNdTRB

 

[JasonM]

There is no damage on these cables, I sometime clean connections up with isopropyl alcohol.

There is differences in these cables that I've hearing, the worst cable in that photo is the Belkin is has that that much resistance it lowers signal into an amp reducing volume.

Going back to the Van Damm Silver series, if there is no differences why do they make three different
versions. The following is from their website.

Lo-Cap 55p/F per meter - Provides a gentle high frequency roll off, ideal for humbucking pickups.

Flat-Cap 90p/F per meter - Provides average high frequency roll off, for use with bass guitar and keyboards.

Hi-Cap 125 p/F per meter - Provides a steeper high frequency roll off, ideal for single-coil pickups.

So if there are no differences in cables why are Van Damme making these different cables?

Now as it happens I found this video on electric guitar cable length. I've linked the video on the following point.

"As a cable gets longer we introduce more capacitive to the system, and our frequency response goes down" - so their saying cable capacitance does effect cable, and ties in exactly with what Van Damm are saying above.

https://youtu.be/klZLWZLBCN4?t=183

 

[JasonM]

They're making 3 cables because they hope they'll sell more cable that way.

And yes, increased length increases capacitance and overall resistance which degrades the signal. What's being compared there is physically unsuitable cable vs cable suitable for application.

Do you believe those Van Damme cables have different capacitance?

Or do you believe those cables are identical, and they just print different numbers on the sides of them?

 

[JasonM]

They will have different capacitance and therefore each one more suitable for different applications, but the bits about frequency roll off in isolation from that is BS.

They're just trying to sell 2 or 3 cables to mugs instead of 1. They nearly all do it.

My favourite instrument cable is a Fender one that they marketed for electro acoustic guitars. It's a nice colour

So lets go back to using those cables as an interconnect.

If they have different capacitance, and we know that capacitance changes sound. I at least believe this anyway, and the person in the video I linked believes this.

If we had an identical length of say Lo-Cap 55, and Mid-Cap 90 cable.

Given it's an analogue signal that's passing down the cable, why would you expect no change in the sound.

We can't have it both ways, someone can't say capacitance changes sound, and then say the cables with different capacitance sound the same. Part of this statement has to be wrong.

 

[JasonM]

In this case, please cite and explain the fundamental physics that governs this so that we may be enlightened. My (very limited) understanding is that some of the electrical properties of cabling can be frequency dependent, so it would be entirely theoretically possible that if those properties were different between cables, this could selectively affect sound reproduction.

What inogen has said about getting current to the amplifier unimpeded is correct.

To whole point of a sound system, is to get electric from the mains (battery if car stereo) to power your speaker. A speaker is an air-pump. So when you listen to music, think of the electric energy flowing the entire way from the power source, all the way into those speakers coils.

So the entire chain of the sound system is trying to convert that electric energy to reproduce sound in a desirable way.

The last part of the chain (before the speaker) is the speaker cable. The most important property is lower resistance, copper is a better conductor then aluminium, so copper cable is preferred. An even better conductor is silver, however the costs of making silver speaker cable would be ridiculous, however silver plated copper is used on interconnects. It's also know that electrodes travel on the outside of cables, this is why speaker cables normally have lots of strands twisted together. There are other factors effecting cable such as impedance and capacitance, however resistance is the main consideration. These things on are not voodoo, there are channels on YouTube where people have measured speaker cable, and shown how different frequency ranges of effected.

So Alex24, going back to when you said one speaker now sounded louder, this is because using a better cable reduced resistance, this allowed current to flow less impeded into the speaker coil.

The reason Edifier use those cheap aluminium speaker cables, is everything is costed, and if they can save 50 cent on the dollar and give you a cheaper cable that they think won't effect sales they will.

 

[JasonM]

but the output from my surrounds was definitely more pronounced so theoretically there may be something in the concept of having more. bearing in mind the law of diminishing returns

When you changed the cable, you likely went for a better cable with less resistance.

Less resistance would make the sound more pronounced.

 

[JasonM]

For anyone who still believes interconnects make no difference, I have a video that could help convince you otherwise.

Thanks to YouTube auto-suggestion the following video appeared.

Going back to my Van Damme Silver cables, these are guitar cables that are being used as HiFi audio cables, so this video is totally relevant.

Someone is recording samples using different cables, the differences should be distinguishable on good audio hardware. The differences in sound that can be heard on this video, is very similar to the differences between my Van Damme interconnects and a cheap generic interconnect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6jyutMh6bk