Maybe quote the bit where they set out its purpose, rather than the 'right to left' deadline it was first put in place for?
Dover Ferry Queues
- Thread starter chroniclard
- Start date
The port has increased its infrastructure and capacity ready for the first weekend of the holidays to cope with the increased demand and additional checks.
The French authorities were informed when this was happening and the demand to expect.
On Friday morning, as the masses descended, the French only had staff for half of the available booths working.
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Of course there hasn't been huge delays on the first weekend of the school holidays for the majority of those 3 years, we've had a global pandemic and people have been under lockdown. Prolonged checks have indeed been a reality for 3 years now, but this is the first year which they have been in effect and the ports have been operating at normal capacity. It would be erroneous to suggest that because the previous 2 summers we had no delays the effects of "B-word" on border control checks etc.. have been mitigated successfully when only "essential workers" were allowed to travel.
This is the first year Dover has been working "at normal operating capacity" with those new checks in place.
This is the first summer Dover has been working at "normal operating capacity" with those new checks in place.
Are the delays worse this year than previous (pre-covid) years due to an increase in border control checks? The data is still not yet available to say.
Are the delays worse this year than previous (pre-covid) years due to an increase in traffic (airline staff issues)? The data is still not yet available to say.
Are the delays worse this year than previous (pre-covid) years due to "The French just being bloody awkward"? The data is still not yet available to say.
Until that information is actually available to look through and figure it out, I simply find it strange that so many people are willing to freely dismiss some possibilities in favour of others. I am open to the possibility of it being any or all of the above, though I find myself considering the first possibility above to be the most likely significant cause since it impacts almost every person and vehicle passing through the port and as mentioned above, this is the first year Dover is operating at "normal" levels with those new effects in place. The second possibility above I think may be a small contributing factor but not significant enough to cause a major difference. And the third possibility, while marginally likely, I have my doubts. I suspect they are simply doing exactly what they are entitled to do with their own international border(s).
*edit* Heck, I'm even open to the possibility that it's no worse this year on the first weekend of summer holidays than any other (pre-covid) year and it's just people's propensity to moan and the media's propensity to play things up to the max for sensational headlines
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Snap
So you've already acquired and collated the data from the last 3 days to previous pre-covid delays and traffic levels at the port on the first weekend of the summer holidays (over say.... the last 10 years?) and factored in the various possible compounding factors and come to the conclusion that B-word has no impact? Must have been a fun Monday morning for you!
Feel free to share that data then and allow the public and those here in this discussion to determine that too.
Because right now we are what...? just to take your word for it that YOU have the data? That YOU and only YOU know for certain the truth and nobody else does?
Wow.
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You'll find similar stories virtually every year around the same time. Also happens just before Christmas as all the lorry drivers try to get home before the Xmas break. I've picked 2015 to discount specifically anything possibly Brexit' related.The data is still not yet available to say.
*edit* Heck, I'm even open to the possibility that it's no worse this year on the first weekend of summer holidays than any other (pre-covid) year and it's just people's propensity to moan and the media's propensity to play things up to the max for sensational headlines
Holidaymakers are being warned of travel chaos on trains and ferries to France
Torrential rain was also forecast for today, adding to misery on the roads
www.independent.co.uk
Here is some data:
In 2016 delays were so bad it lasted 36-48 hours - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/port-of-dover-seven-hour-delays-border-checks-france
Here is a related one containing data - did you know it is called Black Saturday? - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/30/dover-travel-black-saturday-channel
This one was FIVE days:
Cross-Channel lorry queue to cause delays until Monday
Ferries to Calais running again but parts of M20 route to Dover remain closed, with police warning that the thousands of parked vehicles will clear slowly
www.theguardian.com
So the fact they cleared OmG bReXiT diSaStEr in 24 hours means things are better than ever.
You'll find similar stories virtually every year around the same time. Also happens just before Christmas as all the lorry drivers try to get home before the Xmas break. I've picked 2015 to discount specifically anything possibly Brexit' related.
Holidaymakers are being warned of travel chaos on trains and ferries to France
Torrential rain was also forecast for today, adding to misery on the roads
I Agree and it's specifically why I added the edit. That I can definitely believe it is / was actually no worse than any other (pre-covid) year in terms of delays, just a combination of people "really wanting to get away" after 2 years of lockdown and the usual British love of complaining.
My point is that we have not yet had the data released on throughput / demand at the port over the weekend yet and as such, to make assertions that "x" is responsible but "y" could not possibly be responsible is jumping the gun somewhat.
Ah, but did you do a thorough analysis of every vehicle passing in 2016 and 2022 and compare their processing speeds and follow up with a survey to each traveller? No? Well you hAveNt gOT tEh dATAS HAVe U.Here is some data:
In 2016 delays were so bad it lasted 36-48 hours - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/port-of-dover-seven-hour-delays-border-checks-france
Here is a related one containing data - did you know it is called Black Saturday? - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/30/dover-travel-black-saturday-channel
This one was FIVE days:
Cross-Channel lorry queue to cause delays until Monday
Ferries to Calais running again but parts of M20 route to Dover remain closed, with police warning that the thousands of parked vehicles will clear slowly
So the fact they cleared OmG bReXiT diSaStEr in 24 hours means things are better than ever.
Unless I have missed it, none of those have any data relating to throughput of the port, numbers of people being checked per hour, total number per day to be able to make any comparisons at all as to whether it's worse now than before. They are all reports "on" the delays, not the size, cause, or reasons for the delays.Here is some data:
In 2016 delays were so bad it lasted 36-48 hours - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/port-of-dover-seven-hour-delays-border-checks-france
Here is a related one containing data - did you know it is called Black Saturday? - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/30/dover-travel-black-saturday-channel
This one was FIVE days:
Cross-Channel lorry queue to cause delays until Monday
Ferries to Calais running again but parts of M20 route to Dover remain closed, with police warning that the thousands of parked vehicles will clear slowly
So the fact they cleared OmG bReXiT diSaStEr in 24 hours means things are better than ever.
There is no useful data to determine why (or even if) this weekend was actually worse than before (also "worse" is a subjective metric, but that's a whole different discussion lol). Certainly we've had huge delays before which have had people sat around waiting far longer than this passing weekend, but does that specifically mean the port was not operating efficiently / at normal capacity? Not really no.
Until comparisons can actually be made as to throughput / demand over this weekend compared to previous times with hard numerical data, it would be presumptuous to simply dismiss a likely contributing factor, especially with a couple of newspaper articles that merely reporting "on" the delays, not the causes or reasons "for" the delays.
So I take it from your comment that you have an issue with data-driven analysis to determine the causes of issues?
Actually, I'll give you credit here. You've admitted that it might not be entirely Brexit' related - as others with political agendas might want you to believe. Which puts you as much more agreeable than other stalwarts in this thread.I Agree and it's specifically why I added the edit. That I can definitely believe it is / was actually no worse than any other (pre-covid) year in terms of delays, just a combination of people "really wanting to get away" after 2 years of lockdown and the usual British love of complaining.
I certainly wouldn't discount the fact that Brexit' has had an effect. Of course it has. But the queues aren't caused by leaving the EU. It's just a massive, regular, entirely predictable seasonal spike in volume of traffic.
Alright we get it man, you've been on an Excel course at work.
Edit: oh god it was a data-driven consulting course, wasn't it?
Soldato
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You'll find similar stories virtually every year around the same time. Also happens just before Christmas as all the lorry drivers try to get home before the Xmas break. I've picked 2015 to discount specifically anything possibly Brexit' related.
Holidaymakers are being warned of travel chaos on trains and ferries to France
Torrential rain was also forecast for today, adding to misery on the roads
That was a pretty bad time. Just going by the article. Its not like that was a normal service.
I suppose it could be the same disruption as the other thing mentioned.
Especially one that stands at the back of room saying "I can't make progress until I have perfect data!!!"I can spot a Business Analyst a mile off.
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Fair enough. Substitute it with this one then.
Dover ferry port chaos leads to 14-hour traffic jams - BBC News
Delays at the Port of Dover have caused up to 14-hour tailbacks on the A20 /M20 with Kent Police warning disruption could last for another two days.
www.bbc.co.uk
You could literally lift that article word for word and put Saturdays date on it.
From those links, 2015 was due to the migrant crisis and French strike action, and 2016 was due to increased security following the terrorist attacks in France. Neither were “normal” service.
2017, 2018, and 2019 don’t seem to have been too bad — certainly doesn’t appear to have made national news from the searches I’ve conducted, but correct me if I’m wrong.
2020 and 2021 are outliers due to Covid.
What’s the excuse for 2022?
Note that neither @Devilman or I are saying it’s exclusively due to Brexit, but you two are apparently adamant that it’s not having any effect whatsoever.
*Edit* one thing is for sure, and those 2015/16 articles highlight the point; more could be done by the UK police and highways agency to manage the traffic when it does build up. It’s not exactly unexpected and from my experience at the weekend, there was little to no “management” other than to close roads/junctions.
Entrance to the Eurotunnel site on Sunday was via one gate, accessed off a roundabout on which all other routes converged. So what you ended up with was four points of the roundabout in absolute gridlock, tailing back for miles, and no one managing the situation on the roundabout itself. There were plenty of police cars, some just turned up, turned around and ****** off. If they had someone at each point of the roundabout letting one or two cars though at a time, there would have at least been some movement for eveyone, but clearly that was too sensible an option.
2017, 2018, and 2019 don’t seem to have been too bad — certainly doesn’t appear to have made national news from the searches I’ve conducted, but correct me if I’m wrong.
2020 and 2021 are outliers due to Covid.
What’s the excuse for 2022?
Note that neither @Devilman or I are saying it’s exclusively due to Brexit, but you two are apparently adamant that it’s not having any effect whatsoever.
*Edit* one thing is for sure, and those 2015/16 articles highlight the point; more could be done by the UK police and highways agency to manage the traffic when it does build up. It’s not exactly unexpected and from my experience at the weekend, there was little to no “management” other than to close roads/junctions.
Entrance to the Eurotunnel site on Sunday was via one gate, accessed off a roundabout on which all other routes converged. So what you ended up with was four points of the roundabout in absolute gridlock, tailing back for miles, and no one managing the situation on the roundabout itself. There were plenty of police cars, some just turned up, turned around and ****** off. If they had someone at each point of the roundabout letting one or two cars though at a time, there would have at least been some movement for eveyone, but clearly that was too sensible an option.
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