Dover Ferry Queues

[Irish_Tom]

Operation Stack has existed for decades.

And what is the reason for the implementation of Operation Brock right now?

Inland border facility is in Ashford further up the m20. So it's not that. There is one planned for Dover, but that's not even been built yet.

I watched a news report today live on BBC News with the journalist talking about delays, whist standing in front of the entrance to the port of Dover. Only 4 of the 12 booths open, and not a queue in sight.

I was there (Folkestone) on Saturday night/Sunday morning. The two motorway junctions next the to Eurotunnel were closed and everyone was being diverted onto the local roads. It was specifically attributed to Operation Brock.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

And what is the reason for the implementation of Operation Brock right now?



I was there (Folkestone) on Saturday night/Sunday morning. The two motorway junctions next the to Eurotunnel were closed and everyone was being diverted onto the local roads. It was specifically attributed to Operation Brock.

Yes. But that's nothing to do with customs checks for lorries.

It's a way of managing traffic going into the port. Passengers getting priority over the lorries.

 

[Chris Wilson]

You ever have those farts which seemingly go on for a minute solid, and just as you finish, filled with pride and think you're done, there's that teeny, tiny little wheeze at the end which you're more than capable of holding in but now you're committed so squeeze it out anyway only to have the riskiest, most disappointing little "fweep" come out, which is just a tiny, potentially poo filled blip which just renders the loud vuvuzela-mimicking sound before it as moot? Those ones?

That's what the Brexit discussion is.

I am awestruck at your eloquence, you being a regular poster in the Speaker's Corner.

I see now what Rilot meant when he said "By pushing discussion in to SC we can hold posts to a higher standard".

 

[dlockers]

If it is purely down to an increased demand as more people try to go aboard via ferry this year due to the airline staffing issues,

You've mixed two of my drinks (my fault as I presented them together) - people avoiding the airline has probably added a tiny but negligible additional load. My point was the crossing gets nailed on the first week of school holidays every year since the dawn of time (hyperbole aside).

 

[Irish_Tom]

Yes. But that's nothing to do with customs checks for lorries.

Then what's it for?

 

[Hawk Tuah]

It's amazing that you can make such an emotional argument whilst also admitting you don't actually know the reasons behind the queues.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Then what's it for?

Added to my previous post for clarity. Managing traffic.

 

[Diddums]

I am awestruck at your eloquence, you being a regular poster in the Speaker's Corner.

I see now what Rilot meant when he said "By pushing discussion in to SC we can hold posts to a higher standard".

Speaker's corner is just a pity party for people unable to accept the world they live in and the extremely miniscule affect they can have on it, regardless of what they do.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

You've mixed two of my drinks (my fault as I presented them together) - people avoiding the airline has probably added a tiny but negligible additional load. My point was the crossing gets nailed on the first week of school holidays every year since the dawn of time (hyperbole aside).

But, it just HAS to have been because of Brexit, farts and a bit of poo. I don't know, I've not looked at the data. But it must have a significant effect right. I'm disgusted with you all trying to defend it, shame.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Yes. But that's nothing to do with customs checks for lorries.

It's a way of managing traffic going into the port. Passengers getting priority over the lorries.

It's amazing that you can make such an emotional argument whilst also admitting you don't actually know the reasons behind the queues.

Added to my previous post for clarity. Managing traffic.

It was originally set up for a no-deal Brexit and the National Highways website describes it as splitting "EU freight" and "Non-EU freight and all other vehicles".

Operation Brock - National Highways

The Operation Brock contraflow system is designed to keep traffic on the M20 and other roads in Kent moving when there is disruption to travel across the English Channel.

nationalhighways.co.uk

M20 coastbound between junctions 8 and 9 open for EU freight only

Non-EU freight and all other vehicles must leave at junction 8 and follow the diversion route using the A2, M2 and A20. EU freight should stay on the M20 and join the queue.

M20 London bound between junctions 9 and 8 is open as normal.

Bit odd to single out EU freight if it's not for the additional paperwork that didn't used to be required.

 

[Chris Wilson]

That's actually a surprisingly apt analogy but probably not for the reasons you think.

The fart already happened and the after-effects are lingering around and stinking up the place and those who supported the fart are desperately trying to waft it away and pretend everything is normal before other people notice.

The eloquence continues! Thank you for showing us the debating skills those of us banned from the Speaker's Corner are missing. Not wanting to deflate you, I don't think you are quite yet an Enoch Powell, but we all started somewhere.

 

[Devilman]

You've mixed two of my drinks (my fault as I presented them together) - people avoiding the airline has probably added a tiny but negligible additional load. My point was the crossing gets nailed on the first week of school holidays every year since the dawn of time (hyperbole aside).

Indeed that is very true and has no doubt been a pretty big factor in the delays being discussed too. It is difficult to assess where the delays (or at least the perceived increase in them) has come from yet as we simply do not have the data available to figure that out.

This is however, the first year we have had "free flowing travel" since leaving the EU and without all the data being present, we cannot yet know whether the delays this first weekend was as a result of increased border control, increased load on the system due to airline staffing issues, a lack of border control staff (be it deliberate or not) or some other factor not yet considered.

However there seems to be quite a few people who are more than willing to dismiss all other alternatives for whichever idea they favor the most, be that "It's just because the airline shortages" or "It's just the bloody French being difficult again" but when you mention the possibility of increased time being taken to process border control due to no longer being an EU member, it is as if you have uttered something entirely taboo and should not be considered at any cost.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

It was original set up for a no-deal Brexit and the National Highways website describes it as splitting "EU freight" and "Non-EU freight and all other vehicles".

Operation Brock - National Highways

The Operation Brock contraflow system is designed to keep traffic on the M20 and other roads in Kent moving when there is disruption to travel across the English Channel.

nationalhighways.co.uk

Bit odd to single out EU freight if it's not for the additional paperwork that didn't used to be required.

The national highways own intro does a good job of summarising it there.

 

[Diddums]

The eloquence continues! Thank you for showing us the debating skills those of us banned from the Speaker's Corner are missing. Not wanting to deflate you, I don't think you are quite yet an Enoch Powell, but we all started somewhere.

I know you are but what am I?


(Ps, I have no idea where this conversation is even going, like a retarded labrador I'm just happy to be here)

 

[Irish_Tom]

The national highways own intro does a good job of summarising it there.

Yeah, if you ignore the reason for the disruption.

You're trying really hard not to acknowledge what's staring you in the face.

 

[Devilman]

But, it just HAS to have been because of Brexit, farts and a bit of poo. I don't know, I've not looked at the data. But it must have a significant effect right. I'm disgusted with you all trying to defend it, shame.

But it just HAS to be because of the French being awkward, or because of the airlines. I don't know. I've not looked at the data (because it doesn't exist yet). But it must have been a significant effect, right.

Refusal to consider an event which has increased the paperwork and time taken to pass through border control when you have not seen the data either (because it does not yet exist to determine where the extra delays have come from) in favor of the idea of another being pushed by some people (The French just being awkward) or the Airline staff shortages is what I was (and still am) disgusted at. It's the constant dismissal that it could even possibly have anything to do with the extra paperwork now required for border control in favor of some other narrative that I have a problem with.

But I guess it's a lot easier to just blame "The French" than to consider other possibilities, right?

The eloquence continues! Thank you for showing us the debating skills those of us banned from the Speaker's Corner are missing. Not wanting to deflate you, I don't think you are quite yet an Enoch Powell, but we all started somewhere.

If there was ever going to be someone who thought that aspiring to sound like Enoch Powell would be a good thing, it would be you Chris.

 

[dlockers]

Indeed that is very true and has no doubt been a pretty big factor in the delays being discussed too. It is difficult to assess where the delays (or at least the perceived increase in them) has come from yet as we simply do not have the data available to figure that out.

This is however, the first year we have had "free flowing travel" since leaving the EU and without all the data being present, we cannot yet know whether the delays this first weekend was as a result of increased border control, increased load on the system due to airline staffing issues, a lack of border control staff (be it deliberate or not) or some other factor not yet considered.

However there seems to be quite a few people who are more than willing to dismiss all other alternatives for whichever idea they favor the most, be that "It's just because the airline shortages" or "It's just the bloody French being difficult again" but when you mention the possibility of increased time being taken to process border control due to no longer being an EU member, it is as if you have uttered something entirely taboo and should not be considered at any cost.

It really isn't but you are clearly looking for that as your answer.

Prolonged checks have been a reality for 3 years now. Processes have been put in place. Capacity was expanded. It tipped over the busiest weekend of the year due to the massive surge in demand. It returned to a basic level of normality 48 hours later, with just a backlog of HGVs to clear.

It was originally set up for a no-deal Brexit and the National Highways website describes it as splitting "EU freight" and "Non-EU freight and all other vehicles".

Operation Brock - National Highways

The Operation Brock contraflow system is designed to keep traffic on the M20 and other roads in Kent moving when there is disruption to travel across the English Channel.

nationalhighways.co.uk

Bit odd to single out EU freight if it's not for the additional paperwork that didn't used to be required.

What are you talking about, originally setup for Brexit? Operation Brock was a simple evolution of Operation Stack, as Operation Stack was seriously dangerous and caused major issues further up the chain. They've been searching for alternatives to Stack for decades!

 

[Devilman]

dp

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Indeed that is very true and has no doubt been a pretty big factor in the delays being discussed too. It is difficult to assess where the delays (or at least the perceived increase in them) has come from yet as we simply do not have the data available to figure that out.

No, YOU do not have the data.

I live just down the road from the port and my wife works there. My knowledge about the workings, brexit related issues and seasonal traffic is somewhat detailed.

But feel free to discount anything I say over the words of politicians and the Twitterati.

 

[Irish_Tom]

What are you talking about, originally setup for Brexit? Operation Brock was a simple evolution of Operation Stack, as Operation Stack was seriously dangerous and caused major issues further up the chain. They've been searching for alternatives to Stack for decades!

Better tell that to the government. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Gov.uk link

The Operation Brock legislation was first put in place in 2019 in preparation for a potential no-deal departure from the European Union (EU), updated in 2020 in preparation for the end of the EU transition period, and again in 2021 in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic.