E3 2015 - The year the SJW's won?

[elmarko]

That isn't a point.

The only point im getting by reading between the nonsensical lines is that you have a massive axe to grind with what you perceive to be feminism & a number of artistic 'changes' which have only occurred in the deep recesses of your mind.

Anita Sarkeesian is a massive idiot, I agree - but that's because all her so call studies are poorly thought out & her 'social justice' campaigning comes across as self-promotion. But I don't got the step further to attribute any positive inclusive changes as a sign the likes of her have 'taken over', neither do I confuse real feminism to 'online social justice warrior feminism'.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Conversely, if Bioware created a peice of fiction about a murderer who raped women and you as the detective went out to find him. The villain is male and the lead is female, all the MJWs would start whining about how the story had been changed to pander to the feminists.

If its a good game, I'd play it. Gamers don't care who is in it or who makes it, as long as its good.

I'm curious as to why you consider having female characters to be "hampering" fiction exactly?

I never said that, i said developers are intimidated by feminists if they don't include females or shed positivity on females within their game.

 

[Haggisman]

No it wasn't, at all. Unless you're seeing what you want to see, then it's fairly clear he's objecting to change for the sake of change to appease a vocal group of people.

Game companies aren't stupid - they aren't going to destroy their product, alienate their customer base and lose huge amounts of money just to appease a vocal group.

If they ARE doing so, it's because they can see a financial benefit in appeasing the vocal group and this is no different to any other group causing change by being vocal, for example Valve backtracking on the paid mods fiasco a couple of months ago - or should they not have listened to their customer base?

So if anything, it's not feminism that's hampering fiction. It's capitalism, and it always has been.

There's a reason why we don't have many games about cooking, mowing the lawn, driving games where you have to stick to the rules, FPS games where you're just a regular soldier who gets his leg blown off and have to spend the rest of the game in a hospital bed - they don't sell.

If enough people wanted a "wounded soldier hospital simulator", then someone would make one. If enough people wanted a "doing your chores around the house" simulator, then I'm sure someone would make one. If enough people wanted Call of Duty 47809 to feature a female lead, then I reckon they would do it.

Unfortunately the MJWs don't see that, and simply see anything which has the slightest hint of favour towards women as an attack on the essence their very being, and go into all-out defence mode

For example, changing Samus to a guy to "appease" men, I'd object to that sort of thing.

And I agree - changing an existing IP would be stupid (see my above point re: alienating their customers).

However the post I quoted stated that a story with a male lead and villain would cause "outrage at the lack of female inclusion. Regardless of if the piece of fiction its based from included a female or not."

My question is, why would the piece of fiction be hampered if it did include a female?

If its a good game, I'd play it. Gamers don't care who is in it or who makes it, as long as its good.

So why this thread?

I never said that, i said developers are intimidated by feminists if they don't include females or shed positivity on females within their game.

So what?

Developers are "intimidated" by people who don't like the ending of the game.
Developers are "intimidated" by people who want better graphics.
Developers are "intimidated" by people who want better performance.
Developers are "intimidated" by people who think class X is overpowered and should be nerfed.
Developers are "intimidated" by people who think class Y is underpowered and should be buffed.
Developers are "intimidated" by people who that the game is a buggy POS.

If appeasing the people doing the "intimidating" is going to increase sales, then they'll probably try to "fix" it.
If appeasing the people doing the "intimidating" is going to reduce sales, then they'll probably wont try to "fix" it.

Obviously this may not be true in all cases - when the game is more of a "vision" to the developers, rather than a product, but in that case they're not going to pander to anyone's "intimidation" unless it coincides with their own direction.

 

[LateX'Dog]

My question is, why would the piece of fiction be hampered if it did include a female?

Because its already wrote to not include the female.

Go ask J R R R R Martin why John Snow is not a strong relateable female, or why Brienne of Tarth isn't a man.

Fiction is wrote to a story the writer has in their head. Once its wrote, its normally very hard to change (or very obvious if changed) sexes.

If you've just started your piece of fiction, then yeah sure, i completely agree. But most of the time the writers are already hours upon hours into the written game and changing it mid development would require more development costs and time.

I think I've explained this three times now.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Developers are "intimidated" by people who don't like the ending of the game.

Mass Effect 3, new ending the community wanted

Developers are "intimidated" by people who want better graphics.

I can bet you £100 CDP wont do what they did with the Witcher 3 again and that downgrade after the community backlash.

Developers are "intimidated" by people who want better performance.

Wildstar well renowned for terrible performance has seen a 50% performance increase based upon community anger.

Developers are "intimidated" by people who think class X is overpowered and should be nerfed.

Developers are "intimidated" by people who think class Y is underpowered and should be buffed.

Blizzards FOTM classes in WoW are evident (Or used to be) of community outrage and nerfs. Look at Retbombs from vanilla WoW.

Developers are "intimidated" by people who that the game is a buggy POS.

Most of the time if a developer is called out for a buggy POS, they either patch it or their next game is much better.

If appeasing the people doing the "intimidating" is going to reduce sales, then they'll probably wont try to "fix" it.

Blizzard banned just under a million accounts due to botting, that hurt sales and made the community happy.

Obviously this may not be true in all cases - when the game is more of a "vision" to the developers, rather than a product, but in that case they're not going to pander to anyone's "intimidation" unless it coincides with their own direction.

Dishonoured 2 was announced at E3 and your messiah, Anita, was completely outraged at the inclusion of a male lead. Or Doom 4, i bet you that is de gored in the coming months due to the artificial outrage.

Community pressure can and often does change development.

SWTOR during beta was forced by the community to not include a LFG tool. Posts upon posts of gamers requesting no LFG, so they didn't include one. 6 months later they added it after realising what a stupid idea it was.

 

[Haggisman]

Because its already wrote to not include the female.

Go ask J R R R R Martin why John Snow is not a strong relateable female, or why Brienne of Tarth isn't a man.

Fiction is wrote to a story the writer has in their head. Once its wrote, its normally very hard to change (or very obvious if changed) sexes.

If you've just started your piece of fiction, then yeah sure, i completely agree. But most of the time the writers are already hours upon hours into the written game and changing it mid development would require more development costs and time.

I think I've explained this three times now.

I agree with this point completely, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from now?

I'm still struggling for examples of where a story (game or otherwise), has been ruined by changing a male character to a female half way through? (Unless you count Keeping up with the Kardashians? )

Also, just noticed the example you give in the OP, regarding Assassin's Creed and "Stop the Oppression". The game is set in 1868, this is around the same time as women's suffrage was gaining momentum in the UK, so it makes sense for it to be an element of the game, especially when one of the key themes throughout the whole AC series has been freedom from oppression.

 

[Haggisman]

Mass Effect 3, new ending the community wanted



I can bet you £100 CDP wont do what they did with the Witcher 3 again and that downgrade after the community backlash.



Wildstar well renowned for terrible performance has seen a 50% performance increase based upon community anger.



Blizzards FOTM classes in WoW are evident (Or used to be) of community outrage and nerfs. Look at Retbombs from vanilla WoW.



Most of the time if a developer is called out for a buggy POS, they either patch it or their next game is much better.




Blizzard banned just under a million accounts due to botting, that hurt sales and made the community.



Dishonoured 2 was announced at E3 and your messiah, Anita, was completely outraged at the inclusion of a male lead. Or Doom 4, i bet you that is de gored in the coming months due to the artificial outrage.

You've basically just confirmed my points. Thanks

So where are your threads complaining due to the changes made above?

And who is this Anita person you keep harping on about?

Eh: http://www.messiah.edu/info/20192/department_of_education/861/anita_voelker ? I'm confused...

 

[LateX'Dog]

So where are your threads complaining due to the changes made above?

There isn't any because thats what the community wants. The community doesn't want feminist agenda's pushed in their computer games.

They don't want a menstruating Lara Croft because it makes her more relatable. Or a more emotionally responsive Geralt, because "He lacks emotion". There are reasons for each and every piece of fiction and the way it is.

 

[Roar87]

I think it's more about gaming companies not wanting to receive negative PR from new age Feminists on twitter than anything else

 

[Haggisman]

There isn't any because thats what the community wants. The community doesn't want feminist agendas pushed in their computer games.

Well, evidently the feminist community does

Or do they not count in your MJW world?

Anyway, have fun, I'm off to play TW3 and "romance" as many sorceresses as I can

 

[LateX'Dog]

I agree with this point completely, so I'm not really sure where you're coming from now?

Then you haven't been reading.

I'm still struggling for examples of where a story (game or otherwise), has been ruined by changing a male character to a female half way through? (Unless you count Keeping up with the Kardashians? )

It wouldn't be in the companies interests to admit to a move like that. The backlash would be huge. So that is why examples come short.

You could argue that Ciri "might" have been added to appease the "Wticher 2 is sexist" ******** and that delayed the game somewhat. But I'm reaching here.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Well, evidently the feminist community does

Or do they not count in your MJW world?

Oh they do, but they are the minority and they shouldn't dictate for the majority.

 

[Zethor]

Oh they do, but they are the minority and they shouldn't dictate for the majority.

Why not?

 

[LateX'Dog]

Why not?

Because then its not equality.

 

[Zethor]

Because then its not equality.

In other words, you consider to be an example of 'equality' the situation in some countries in which the majority believe women should stay indoors to cook, clean and raise children and only go out fully covered. What if the majority is wrong, have you ever considered that possibility?

 

[TheGamingGeneral]

I think all games should be locked down to playing a multi coloured square. Or will this be too 'masculine'? Should it be a circle? And only one solid colour such as magenta?

Ah yes, the magenta circle, symbol of the patriarchy!

The sphere of fear!!!!!!!

ps, this thread is an absolute 10/10, good job everyone

 

[LateX'Dog]

In other words, you consider to be an example of 'equality' the situation in some countries in which the majority believe women should stay indoors to cook, clean and raise children and only go out fully covered. What if the majority is wrong, have you ever considered that possibility?

Spoiler

 

[ZombieFan]

Your timeline is wrong here.

She was appointed as community manager in December 2013:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9/posts/689758

The developers were already allowing people to vote on the design of the female character in September 2013:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9/posts/611851

I'm now completely confused by the issue with Mighty No. 9. Call (the female character) was always planned to be a character in the game. Stretch goals were reached which allowed her to be a playable character in co-op and also have a single-player level, both of which make sense and fit in with the game.

Dana joined the team after this, suggested that Beck (the male character) could be female. Her views were dismissed, the game wasn't changed and she was booted from the team.

What's the issue here again?

 

[mid_gen]

Oh dear, that's the one 'example' of game developers caving in to feminazis out the window.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I'm now completely confused by the issue with Mighty No. 9. Call (the female character) was always planned to be a character in the game. Stretch goals were reached which allowed her to be a playable character in co-op and also have a single-player level, both of which make sense and fit in with the game.

Dana joined the team after this, suggested that Beck (the male character) could be female. Her views were dismissed, the game wasn't changed and she was booted from the team.

What's the issue here again?

No, the main character Beck is the lead role. The others are optional characters in the multiplayer (IIRC)

The issue is a pro feminist, who claimed to be a Mega Man fan, forced her way into the company Comcept, by declaring the Beck and Comcept of misogyny. She produced some concept art of a female Beck and then tried to drum up support for it. The developers then employed her as the Community manager, she silenced people she didn't like or didn't agree with and didn't pass on suggestions from the community. Then it was found out she was in a relationship with one of the developers and actually never played any Mega Man game.

The "issue" is with this women even being given the light of day. She clearly had no business being in the position she was in and then attempted coercion of the development process to push her feminist agenda.