EBD ban.

dannyjo22 said:
It's not hard luck, it's try to influence the outcome of the result.
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More than likely, but at this point none of us know HOW it will influence the result?

I posted about this a while back, in my opinion the FIA let RBR win the first championship to keep them happy (they have 2 teams after all). Now RBR have gone so far ahead to the point where they are about to win the championship and turn the fans away, the FIA have changed their minds :rolleyes:

The fact is, we know too little about the situation to do any more than speculate.
 
Looking at Scarbs this morning trying to get some clarification on how these settings work and when you can alter settings. It seems Mclaren/Mercedes teams and Red Bull are the two teams rumoured to be most reliant on qualifying maps.

Now wouldn't that be funny on ocuk if this allows ferrari to leapfrog them all and take the title. So many people venting at red bull to have ferrari walk in and take the title.

God I hope this now means Mclaren are even further back, just for the fallout from those that think this is perfectly acceptable because they think it's only going to hurt red bull :D
 
Its just rbr using this for qulifine, all they are doing is chucking gallons of fuel into the engine and alterted the timing so the engine poduce's less power but produce's more hot exspanding air over the back of the car. to do this they had to change the engine map provided by mclaren..........it just makes me laugh that they let it go this far into the season with out banning it. The Red Bulls are the main culprits as we all see at every weekend they get pole.

sry mr CS Nuts............your team is cheating.

clear as day.
 
They are not cheating.
If they had been cheating, the FIA would've nailed them for it.
If RBR continue to do what they are doing at Silverstone (or may be Valencia, if the FIA get their way), then it will be considered cheating...until then, RBR are merely pushing the boundaries of the rules.

Right now, RBR have the best design team in the business. They have creative minds who are thinking outside the box and as a result are doing well for themselves.
 
...because the FIA never told them, not to use the innovation (if that is an appropriate term).
You state that engine mapping is banned, where exactly does it state this?
If it already banned, then I'm sure RBR will have an alternative explanation of what they are doing.
As far as I know, engine mapping, which is controlled by the driver (no external computers are permitted to change the engine map from qualifying to race), is not yet banned (though may be banned from Valencia onwards).

I think the best example is the flexi wing, as it is a device which is visible to the naked eye.

Everybody (including, us the viewers, who know a fraction of what the FIA know) knows the wing is flexing, yet if the FIA deem it as a legal device, then it is legal.

If at some point, the FIA decide that the flexi wing should no longer be legal, then it will get banned and from that point onwards (a date is usually given), any car found to be using the device is given a stiff penalty.

So, similarly, with engine re-mapping, off throttle blowing, etc, once the FIA give absolute clarification on when the innovation is going to be banned, all teams must follow, or feel the wrath of the FIA.

Remember, an F1 team must follow the rules of the FIA, not the rules of Kerming, sunama, McLaren or whomever.

People really do think that the FIA are idiots...they are not. They know exactly what they are doing and have far more information at their disposal than any of us.
 
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If it is flexing then it's already illegal. Rules stipulate a maximum deflection in the race not just the load testing. A installed sensor and a flying lap would put an end to it. Very different situation to the OTBD, DD, f-duct.
 
AcidHell2 said:
If it is flexing then it's already illegal. Rules stipulate a maximum deflection in the race not just the load testing. A installed sensor and a flying lap would put an end to it. Very different situation to the OTBD, DD, f-duct.
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LOL.
OTBD, DD...this is turning into an acronym love fest. :D

Acid, you say that the flexi wing is illegal.
The rules state that the flexi wing is illegal.
However, after testing and much discussion, the FIA say that the wing is legal.

I don't know about you, but to me the rule makers' (ie. the FIA) opinion counts more than any rule book or non-FIA person. Don't you think?

You must remember that this is F1 and rules are meant to be taken with a pinch of salt. This is the nature of F1. The fastest cars will always find loop-holes and grey areas. Only the best designers will be able to find these loop holes. Designers who are not very good will do exactly what you have done and read every rule literally, with no "interpretation".

I, for one, commend RBR for their efforts and their ability to stick it to the old guard. I don't particularly like Vettel winning, but if it was a Brit in his seat, I would love every second of it.
 
Pinch of salt yes. However this isn't a grey area. I've posted the exact rule before. It says something along the lines of the wing must not flex more than x-mm at any point in the race and has nothing to do with the loading tests.
So where most rules need clarification and is unto fia to decide (I agree with you on that point), I don't think it applies. In this case. It's a very straight forward rule.
As I have said before if they are unwilling to enforce it like the team rules with Ferrari.
Then the rule should be altered.

Now there is an opinion that RBR have got several parts to flex nit just the front wing, which could make it under the flex limit within the race, again a few sensors would show one way or the other.

And it's not just about RBR I was gobsmacked and angry with fia and Ferrari over team rules, the rules where clear.
Either investigate and enforce or remove the rules. Or make them more blurred so the fia can decide halfway through the season.

I love the OTBD and f-duct and such innovation which takes a side step clear around the rules. Which is a big part of f1 and I also say fair play to RBR doing what they can get away with. My problem isn't with a team it's with the FIA. I also think the other teams are muppets for not implementing such a system I can't believe that no one in the world can design such a wing.
 
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lol, I love how this has now changed to the flexi wing :p

Sunama - the problem with the FIA's "opinion" is that it changes on a regular basis and to suit their own masterplan (whatever it may be).
 
Kerming said:
Its just rbr using this for qulifine, all they are doing is chucking gallons of fuel into the engine and alterted the timing so the engine poduce's less power but produce's more hot exspanding air over the back of the car. to do this they had to change the engine map provided by mclaren..........it just makes me laugh that they let it go this far into the season with out banning it. The Red Bulls are the main culprits as we all see at every weekend they get pole.

sry mr CS Nuts............your team is cheating.

clear as day.
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It's qualifying.... How many times!!!!
 
Evolution of discussion, it all folds into the fia inconsitencys.
They're banning something which isn't really in the rules, but have taken next to no steps to investigate something that is actually stipulated. Just like team orders.
 
Ferrari
If you are referring to Ferrari using team orders - they were fined the maximum US$100k, for their infringment. They were punished.

RBR
There is indeed a rule stipulating the degree of wing flex, however, teams will always flirt with the edge of the rules. You understand this. Teams understand this. The FIA understands this. It is therefore up to the FIA to intervene when they see that things have gone too far.

Teams MUST flirt with boundaries of the rules to gain an advantage on the opposition. For you to say that the rules state, X, Y and Z, therefore we will build a car which safely complies with this, is wrong, simply because this would mean that your car will be slow.

I'm presuming that RBR must've first built a flexi wing with less flex. No body noticed. They probably built V2.0 with more flex. This time, people noticed and the FIA increased the load test. RBR then probably built V3.0, which passes the new test. There is nothing wrong with this. RBR are merely pushing the boundaries of rules. This is quite normal. Once the FIA feel that RBR have gone too far, they will have a word with them and "ask" them to ensure that their wing doesn't flex. If RBR do not comply, then the FIA will take more stringent action. This is usually how things work.

A few GPs ago, Ferrari brought a new wing. FIA had a word with them. Ferrari complied and the subject was dead and buried. There is nothing wrong with a team creating a car which is flirting with the edge of what is legal/illegal.

The FIA are the people who make and enforce the rules. Not AcidHell, sunama or any body else. They decide whether a car is legal or not, regardless of what is written in the rule book. If the FIA deem it necessary, they can even re-write the rule book mid season ;)

At present, the RBR car is 100% legal. Not because I say so. Not because the rule book says so. But because the FIA say so.
 
You seem to miss the point about FIA inconsistency, rather what they can do and what is technically legal. My complaint has nothing to do with teams flirting at the edges or even breaking rules. It's part of the sport. The problem is with fia and it's inconstancies.
Just because they decide doesn't mean I can't have a moan and think they should change to improve the sport.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Just because they decide doesn't mean I can't have a moan and think they should change to improve the sport.
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LOL. Yes. I understand.

Just remember though, the FIA will bend the rules, to suit themselves.
They can make rules in the middle of the season if they see fit.
They can even choose to ignore rules which are being broken, if they see fit. They can do whatever they want.

The teams, the F1 viewers/fans, etc, just have to go along with whatever the FIA want to do.
 
And dont you think that is wrong and spoils the sport? I certainly do.

Of course we have to go along with, no one said otherwise. Unless I go on an assassin trip with my keyboard.
 
AcidHell2 said:
And dont you think that is wrong and spoils the sport? I certainly do.

Of course we have to go along with, no one said otherwise. Unless I go on an assassin trip with my keyboard.
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It certainly doesn't sit well with me.

What I don't get, is why the DDs weren't banned - oh yes, thats right, because the FIA felt like it :rolleyes:
 
Also wasn't Ferrari fined 100k for bringing the sport into disrepute and not for team orders and was only the maximum fine for bringing sport into disrupte and other options where available, just not to the stewards but to the council who chose not to?
 
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