Electric scooters and the law

Demon said:
I can't believe this hasn't been resolved with the easiest of solutions..

Just make one minor tweak to the current eBike legislation to remove the need to pedal assist and then classify eScooters as eBikes.. same power/speed restrictions..

Why oh why is this being complicated and blown out of proportion?

The trial scheme hasn't highlighted any major safety concerns about using them in the same way as eBikes...

What we need are proper policing of cycles (which if I had my way would cover eScooters by extension), fine people if found riding on pavements, if your eBike/eScooter is suspected of not conforming, confiscate, test and if found out of limits, destroy/hefty fine or something..

How hard does it need to be?

It seems absolutely ridiculous to demand insurance and a driving licence to ride an eScooter, yet jump on an eBike with the same power/speed with no insurance and no licence..
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Its not being blown out of proportion, they simply dont want privately owned scooters on the roads because they want these 'trial schemes' running all over the country, contracts with the govt are involved and they dont want people buying their own escooter, they want you hiring and paying for theirs.
The drivers license is just so they can identify who is using each scooter, insurance for obvious reasons, damage will get caused in crashes, but you dont have to get this yourself, its already covered by the operator at point of hire.
Rest assured if Boris bikes go electric, same will happen to ebikes...
 
That's what they want, except everyone will have one and it all falls down due to idiot's in charge with zero idea, even with a Eton education.
 
Angilion said:
The fact that safety standards aren't always perfectly adhered to isn't a compelling argument for getting rid of safety standards entirely, which is what advocates of riding powered vehicles on pavements are calling for. But only if they like the type of engine used to power the vehicle. Which makes no sense, but that's what they're doing. In fact, riding a vehicled powered by an internal combustion engine on pavements is safer than riding a vehicle powered by an electric motor on pavements because the ICE will at least be making a noise that might be enough warning for people to take evasive action in time.
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I suppose my point is that creating standards that aren't going to be adhered because they are viewed as ridiculous (like the 15mph speed limit which is easily exceeded by pedalling alone or going down a gentle hill) is ultimately a waste of money.

b0rn2sk8 said:
^^ This basically.

It would be good to have a little more power for hills (350w) but keep the same max speed on both ebikes and scooters but I could live with 250w.
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500W I'd say is reasonable, that will get you to at most 30mph on the flat in perfect conditions which is achievable by pedalling hard on a light bike so I don't see the need for speed restrictions.

My big problem with speed restrictions is that it results in the motor stopping and starting repeatedly when you hit the limit so pedalling switches from ok to very hard repeatedly which is awful if you've ever ridden an ebike and makes you want to derestrict it right away.

As I mentioned in my previous post you need 2.3KW minimum to reach 15mph uphill so 500W I would say is more appropriate a power level, as the main reason for many people to get an ebike is because of hills.

Interesting graph of typical ebike performance below.

 
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finga said:
what makes you so sure?
As an ebike owner its the last thing I want, but they did it with escooters.
This is rip off Britain, dont forget that. If its a way to extract money from you, it will happen.
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I've had eBikes for 11 years, the only people who are going to ruin it for us are those idiots who fly around on deristricted bikes at 30+ mph and aren't even pedaling.
I now know of 3 local people who have had theirs confiscated.
The laws need tightening up on what the laws already are.

I joined this Group about a month ago and it's idiots on here who will ruin it - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2233874716836379

15000ebike.jpg
 
if that image is in on a motorbike captcha I'll select it.

looks like ebikes/bikes are showing an interesting trend, 40% more miles(motors helped ?) , deaths up;
maybe more legislation - training+licenses would help, but, permitting unrestrained Escooters would just make it worse.

51402437347_5445e53655_h_d.jpg
 
jpaul said:
if that image is in on a motorbike captcha I'll select it.

looks like ebikes/bikes are showing an interesting trend, 40% more miles(motors helped ?) , deaths up;
maybe more legislation - training+licenses would help, but, permitting unrestrained Escooters would just make it worse.

51402437347_5445e53655_h_d.jpg
Click to expand...

Absolute deaths may be up but that isn’t unexpected if more people are using them. Casualties per miles driven is well down which indicates they are getting safer.
 
This last week I've seen numerous kids under 18 on the Voi hire escooters around here, no helmets, on road and non-shared pavements, giving mates a lift.

It will end in tears, but not a chance it will be because they've been stopped by police.
 
finga said:
Its not being blown out of proportion, they simply dont want privately owned scooters on the roads because they want these 'trial schemes' running all over the country, contracts with the govt are involved and they dont want people buying their own escooter, they want you hiring and paying for theirs.
The drivers license is just so they can identify who is using each scooter, insurance for obvious reasons, damage will get caused in crashes, but you dont have to get this yourself, its already covered by the operator at point of hire.
Rest assured if Boris bikes go electric, same will happen to ebikes...
Click to expand...

Of course it's being blown out of proportion, eScooter = eCycle (from just about any frame of reference, including most european countries) and yet here we are requiring insurance/licences/registrationg and a scheme so ill thought out (The cost of hiring them/restricted travel area massively detracts from their use case) it's beyond backwards..

We all know the law is broken for cycles, the only reason eScooters are getting hounded is simply that even with the notion of eScooter = eBike, suddenly getting loads of eBikes = more injuries and more mayhem.. The number of cycles ridden badly on pavements etc is high enough.. So basically a lack of wanting to police the law leads to stupid decisions having to be made!
 
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I for one think that escooters are going to be a common sight and a sea change to personal city transport as we know it. Lots of new modes of transport come along such as:

Segway
Hoverboard
Roller blades
Those wheels fitted inside trainers

Most of the above, although still popular as a niche product, require an element of balance or fitness to enable the user to utilise the device. Escooters IMO are a game changer. If you can ride a bike you can ride an escooter with no fitness requirement. They're small, nippy and easy to use. I've seen several young businesswomen, suited and booted, whizzing up the hill out of Bristol city centre into the suburbs on voi scooters. I think that the days of seeing lots of office workers in office dress and trainers powerwalking into town are numbered.

It'll be escooters everywhere, like pushbikes in Amsterdam.

Edit: Plus women in skirts can easily use them too
 
Energize said:
I suppose my point is that creating standards that aren't going to be adhered because they are viewed as ridiculous (like the 15mph speed limit which is easily exceeded by pedalling alone or going down a gentle hill) is ultimately a waste of money.



500W I'd say is reasonable, that will get you to at most 30mph on the flat in perfect conditions which is achievable by pedalling hard on a light bike so I don't see the need for speed restrictions.

My big problem with speed restrictions is that it results in the motor stopping and starting repeatedly when you hit the limit so pedalling switches from ok to very hard repeatedly which is awful if you've ever ridden an ebike and makes you want to derestrict it right away.

As I mentioned in my previous post you need 2.3KW minimum to reach 15mph uphill so 500W I would say is more appropriate a power level, as the main reason for many people to get an ebike is because of hills.

Interesting graph of typical ebike performance below.

Click to expand...

I think most states in America have it rights - 750w and 20mph.

Euro s-pedelec class is interesting - 500w, 28mphs, need to be 16 or over, pass CBT, must wear a helmet and can only be used on road.

I've had a couple of "not quite legal" ebikes for about 10 years in one form or another and I've never had any issues, but they look like regular bikes and I don't ride them like an idiot (well, not anymore - see below). On my commuter, if I'm separated from the bike, it defaults to fully legal 250w and 15.5mph assist speed and the throttle is disabled. Might stop any "complications" with the plod, might not.

I did build a 3000w 50mph bike - rigid forks and rim brakes - that was scary as ****! Got dismantled soon after snatching all the KoMs down the promenade cycle route!

42648297_10217830826181102_885513387604180992_n.jpg

10513529_10204557713961592_850770222449929301_n.jpg


This is the commuter fitted with the 3kw/50mph kit:-

1262533_10202169485697378_1504471713_o.jpg


It now has a Bafang BBS02 crank drive kit and the same battery (fitted on down tube) as the Mondaraker.
 
I got an e-scooter that I adapted to fit my wheelchair, it's a bit agricultural but it does the job really well. When I go out on it I always get compliments about it being a cool idea and that I should make more and sell them etc.. It's made a huge difference to my life, I can now go out on bike rides with my partner/friends - I should have done it years ago!

I've recently taken it to the Lake District on my holidays where I put it, and my mate(who needed to rescue me when I got stuck), through it's paces. Again, I can now do lots of things that I could never do before - it's brilliant!

I haven't been stopped by the police. Granted, not many police around my area but I've seen two now and they both took no notice at all. I've got plans to make it better but I wouldn't stop using it even if they was explicitly banned as I see it as a mobility aid as, after 25+ years being in a chair, my arm/shoulders are not as good as they were.
 
Demon said:
Of course it's being blown out of proportion, eScooter = eCycle (from just about any frame of reference, including most european countries) and yet here we are requiring insurance/licences/registrationg and a scheme so ill thought out (The cost of hiring them/restricted travel area massively detracts from their use case) it's beyond backwards..

We all know the law is broken for cycles, the only reason eScooters are getting hounded is simply that even with the notion of eScooter = eBike, suddenly getting loads of eBikes = more injuries and more mayhem.. The number of cycles ridden badly on pavements etc is high enough.. So basically a lack of wanting to police the law leads to stupid decisions having to be made!
Click to expand...

youre making it sound like you need to jump through hoops to rent an escooter, theyre not gonna willingly let you own one you can 'legally' use, they want you to pay to ride rentals.
you need to register with an app with your drivers license, which is just proof of age and id, you link your card and off you go on any rental nearby. Its just money
 
hominid said:
I got an e-scooter that I adapted to fit my wheelchair, it's a bit agricultural but it does the job really well. When I go out on it I always get compliments about it being a cool idea and that I should make more and sell them etc.. It's made a huge difference to my life, I can now go out on bike rides with my partner/friends - I should have done it years ago!

I've recently taken it to the Lake District on my holidays where I put it, and my mate(who needed to rescue me when I got stuck), through it's paces. Again, I can now do lots of things that I could never do before - it's brilliant!

I haven't been stopped by the police. Granted, not many police around my area but I've seen two now and they both took no notice at all. I've got plans to make it better but I wouldn't stop using it even if they was explicitly banned as I see it as a mobility aid as, after 25+ years being in a chair, my arm/shoulders are not as good as they were.
Click to expand...

I'd appreciate a picture.
The official wheelchair strapons (what the wife calls them) cost a lot of money.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I've had eBikes for 11 years, the only people who are going to ruin it for us are those idiots who fly around on deristricted bikes at 30+ mph and aren't even pedaling.
I now know of 3 local people who have had theirs confiscated.
The laws need tightening up on what the laws already are.

I joined this Group about a month ago and it's idiots on here who will ruin it - https://www.facebook.com/groups/2233874716836379

15000ebike.jpg
Click to expand...

I would very much like to have a go on that bike :cry:
 
jpaul said:
if that image is in on a motorbike captcha I'll select it.

looks like ebikes/bikes are showing an interesting trend, 40% more miles(motors helped ?) , deaths up;
maybe more legislation - training+licenses would help, but, permitting unrestrained Escooters would just make it worse.

51402437347_5445e53655_h_d.jpg
Click to expand...

That shows a substantial drop in casualties per mile, as more people use bikes obviously the more people are going to die when some idiot driver plows into them.
 
finga said:
youre making it sound like you need to jump through hoops to rent an escooter, theyre not gonna willingly let you own one you can 'legally' use, they want you to pay to ride rentals.
you need to register with an app with your drivers license, which is just proof of age and id, you link your card and off you go on any rental nearby. Its just money
Click to expand...

The point is, I’m sat here staring at an eScooter (privately owned ) in the office that is sat there now because of the recent change in policing, yet the eBikes next to it are still being used, despite them essentially being the same thing.

The renting scheme are useless due to idiotic cost, range restriction and no guarantee of local availability…

The equivalent would be to outlaw eBikes, then put in place the same Rental scheme for them..
 
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