Electric scooters and the law

b0rn2sk8 said:
Absolute deaths may be up but that isn’t unexpected if more people are using them. Casualties per miles driven is well down which indicates they are getting safer.
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You reckon between 2019 and 2020 the manufacturers or users of bicycles drastically improved safety?

It's hard to kill yourself on a bicycle, even two bicycles colliding is super unlikely to be fatal, the energy and mass just isn't there. Way more likely to get killed by contact with a much heavier and faster motor vehicle, doesn't matter who's in the wrong.

But between 2019 and 2020 we had a drastic reduction in motor vehicles on the road :eek:

So with restrictions lifted we can expect the deaths/mile for cyclists to increase dramatically as the roads are once again busy with motor vehicles.
 
Demon said:
The point is, I’m sat here staring at an eScooter (privately owned ) in the office that is sat there now because of the recent change in policing, yet the eBikes next to it are still being used, despite them essentially being the same thing.

The renting scheme are useless due to idiotic cost, range restriction and no guarantee of local availability…

The equivalent would be to outlaw eBikes, then put in place the same Rental scheme for them..
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Range restrictions?
 
Demon said:
The point is, I’m sat here staring at an eScooter (privately owned ) in the office that is sat there now because of the recent change in policing, yet the eBikes next to it are still being used, despite them essentially being the same thing.

The renting scheme are useless due to idiotic cost, range restriction and no guarantee of local availability…

The equivalent would be to outlaw eBikes, then put in place the same Rental scheme for them..
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I dont know what area youre in or how long the scheme has been running but here in N’pton its been going a while now, its very popular and the price is cheap. They are everywhere, no problems to get one, the initial range restrictions have gradually extended.
Also as mentioned elsewhere, police are doing nothing about private escooters, theres plenty of them being used alongside the rentals
 
finga said:
I dont know what area youre in or how long the scheme has been running but here in N’pton its been going a while now, its very popular and the price is cheap. They are everywhere, no problems to get one, the initial range restrictions have gradually extended.
Also as mentioned elsewhere, police are doing nothing about private escooters, theres plenty of them being used alongside the rentals
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I don't know what to say, compared to owning your own and using it as an eBike with the same relative 'lack' of restrictions as eBikes, the rental schemes are hugely restrictive.. Rental schemes today aren't remotely useful for commuting, the one area people mainly use eScooters/eBikes etc..

I'm not going to get up, find the nearest parked scooter, walk from home to the scooter, rent it, ride as close to work as I can (there is nowhere around work suitable for parking scooters), then walk from there to work, then rinse and repeat on the way home (and hoping they aren't all taken, or don't get rented between me finding one in the app and me walking to it's location).. it's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.. The only way it works is if I have it in my house for my own personal use.. Then why would I want to rent it at some grossly inflated rate?

For disclosure, I have 2 eScooters , neither being used because there are enough people now who've had 6 points on their licence whilst riding responsibly in cycle lanes, wearing helmets etc, that it's not worth the risk. I've also hired Scooters in Cheltenham twice now, I was amazed how expensive they are (£1 to unlock at 15p/minute).. to commute on those would cost me £4 a day with much more inconvenience..

Delvis said:
Range restrictions?
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Yes, they are geo-fenced and will cut power if used outside their limited designated areas.
 
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Demon said:
I'm not going to get up, find the nearest parked scooter, walk from home to the scooter, rent it, ride as close to work as I can (there is nowhere around work suitable for parking scooters), then walk from there to work, then rinse and repeat on the way home (and hoping they aren't all taken, or don't get rented between me finding one in the app and me walking to it's location).. it's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.. The only way it works is if I have it in my house for my own personal use.. Then why would I want to rent it at some grossly inflated rate?
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On the scheme in Newcastle, Stoke on Trent, my work colleague usually walks the 1 mile to work but on the first morning walked 100 yards to an eScooter station.
It cost him around £1.50 and he parked it in a station just over the road from the hospital.
He was looking forward to going home but couldn't find one and every subsequent day couldn't find one to go or come home from work so he gave up.
One of the stations was at Newcastle College and they ended up chaining them all together so the students couldn't use them.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
On the scheme in Newcastle, Stoke on Trent, my work colleague usually walks the 1 mile to work but on the first morning walked 100 yards to an eScooter station.
It cost him around £1.50 and he parked it in a station just over the road from the hospital.
He was looking forward to going home but couldn't find one and every subsequent day couldn't find one to go or come home from work so he gave up.
One of the stations was at Newcastle College and they ended up chaining them all together so the students couldn't use them.
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I know, the rental scheme model is so laughably useless and completely misses the point of why people want eScooters/eBikes/Personal E Transport..

Lets wait and see what they decide in the end.. I'd like to think they need to beef up and try to encourage eBikes and cycling and bundle eScooters in to that improved legislation and effort, however I sense they'll turn eScooters in to cars and kill them off that way..
 
Demon said:
I know, the rental scheme model is so laughably useless and completely misses the point of why people want eScooters/eBikes/Personal E Transport..

Lets wait and see what they decide in the end.. I'd like to think they need to beef up and try to encourage eBikes and cycling and bundle eScooters in to that improved legislation and effort, however I sense they'll turn eScooters in to cars and kill them off that way..
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They are also missing a trick, like he said, he would pay £10 a week to hire one that he keeps with him, after a year every rental week would then be a profit assuming the scooter costs around £500.
 
Demon said:
I don't know what to say, compared to owning your own and using it as an eBike with the same relative 'lack' of restrictions as eBikes, the rental schemes are hugely restrictive.. Rental schemes today aren't remotely useful for commuting, the one area people mainly use eScooters/eBikes etc..

I'm not going to get up, find the nearest parked scooter, walk from home to the scooter, rent it, ride as close to work as I can (there is nowhere around work suitable for parking scooters), then walk from there to work, then rinse and repeat on the way home (and hoping they aren't all taken, or don't get rented between me finding one in the app and me walking to it's location).. it's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.. The only way it works is if I have it in my house for my own personal use.. Then why would I want to rent it at some grossly inflated rate?

For disclosure, I have 2 eScooters , neither being used because there are enough people now who've had 6 points on their licence whilst riding responsibly in cycle lanes, wearing helmets etc, that it's not worth the risk. I've also hired Scooters in Cheltenham twice now, I was amazed how expensive they are (£1 to unlock at 15p/minute).. to commute on those would cost me £4 a day with much more inconvenience..


Yes, they are geo-fenced and will cut power if used outside their limited designated areas.
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Maybe its not so good where you are, we have Voi here. Nearest scooter is end of the street round here, but we are not a city, and I am in N’pton town.
Nobody is using parking bays, they are left outside everybodies end of journey. A guy I work with pays a monthly sub and uses them everyday for work, never has a problem. I did say he may aswell get an ebike on HP as its free after 3 years for the same price but he doesnt care.

You are looking at it like it should be for your convenience and in your best interests, but its a money making scheme, it puts money into economy, creates jobs etc, its purely about money. What you want creates nothing but your own convenience, thats how youre looking at it wrong, they dont care what you want. Dont use it, the next person will, and pay for it. Who is losing out here? The scooter hire companies or you sitting there looking at your redundant scooters? Sell them and buy an ebike or rent a scooter and stop feeling bad about it.
 
finga said:
Maybe its not so good where you are, we have Voi here. Nearest scooter is end of the street round here, but we are not a city, and I am in N’pton town.
Nobody is using parking bays, they are left outside everybodies end of journey. A guy I work with pays a monthly sub and uses them everyday for work, never has a problem. I did say he may aswell get an ebike on HP as its free after 3 years for the same price but he doesnt care.

You are looking at it like it should be for your convenience and in your best interests, but its a money making scheme, it puts money into economy, creates jobs etc, its purely about money. What you want creates nothing but your own convenience, thats how youre looking at it wrong, they dont care what you want. Dont use it, the next person will, and pay for it. Who is losing out here? The scooter hire companies or you sitting there looking at your redundant scooters? Sell them and buy an ebike or rent a scooter and stop feeling bad about it.
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:) We are slightly out of sync, I'm not talking about the mechanics of the rental scheme, I fully understand that, I am talking the bigger picture, there should be no need to have a rental scheme is where my opinion is coming from...

I can't believe that this is some pathetic random attempt by the Gov't to get a measly amount of pennies in the coffers because it's so wide of the mark that changing laws and putting all the frameworks in place for Scooter rental which serves no one any real purpose is a spectacular waste of time..

I thought the Rental schemes are short lived and a trial to get some mileage and people on them in a more restricted way to minimise the risks a bit, then once complete decided on the way forward.. And this is the sad thing.. they didn't need to do this at all, just make a quick decision that eScooter = eBike and make the tiniest of changes the eBike legislation to state you don't need to peddle assist, but must use them according to the highway code for cycles and job is done..
Well, except the reality is the infrastrcuture is not setup for lots of bikes (or scooters), as much as any legislation is needed, it actually needs infrastructure changes which a rental scheme will never cure..
 
Demon said:
:) We are slightly out of sync, I'm not talking about the mechanics of the rental scheme, I fully understand that, I am talking the bigger picture, there should be no need to have a rental scheme is where my opinion is coming from...

I can't believe that this is some pathetic random attempt by the Gov't to get a measly amount of pennies in the coffers because it's so wide of the mark that changing laws and putting all the frameworks in place for Scooter rental which serves no one any real purpose is a spectacular waste of time..

I thought the Rental schemes are short lived and a trial to get some mileage and people on them in a more restricted way to minimise the risks a bit, then once complete decided on the way forward.. And this is the sad thing.. they didn't need to do this at all, just make a quick decision that eScooter = eBike and make the tiniest of changes the eBike legislation to state you don't need to peddle assist, but must use them according to the highway code for cycles and job is done..
Well, except the reality is the infrastrcuture is not setup for lots of bikes (or scooters), as much as any legislation is needed, it actually needs infrastructure changes which a rental scheme will never cure..
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i understand what youre saying, Im just pointing out the reason for it being retarded in most peoples eyes.
Its not really the govt getting the pennies, more the rental companies but it creates employment, gets money circulating. If there was no money in it then it wouldnt be happening.
They had a big drive at the start of lockdown on cycling to work etc, the average bloke cycling 3 miles to work on his old 100 quid jalopy is looking at 4-500 quid escooters as a nice zero effort alternative. They are going to opt for that over a 3k ebike, yes I know you can convert a crappy bike for less but most people cant be bothered to.
The point is that it was inevitable hundreds of these scooters would start appearing on the roads, and being ridden by children also, nightmare. They monetised it and age restricted it based on most law abiding people not risking buying their own and paying out on a rental that needs a drivers license to register.
Everything in this world is about money, only money
 
finga said:
i understand what youre saying, Im just pointing out the reason for it being retarded in most peoples eyes.
Its not really the govt getting the pennies, more the rental companies but it creates employment, gets money circulating. If there was no money in it then it wouldnt be happening.
They had a big drive at the start of lockdown on cycling to work etc, the average bloke cycling 3 miles to work on his old 100 quid jalopy is looking at 4-500 quid escooters as a nice zero effort alternative. They are going to opt for that over a 3k ebike, yes I know you can convert a crappy bike for less but most people cant be bothered to.
The point is that it was inevitable hundreds of these scooters would start appearing on the roads, and being ridden by children also, nightmare. They monetised it and age restricted it based on most law abiding people not risking buying their own and paying out on a rental that needs a drivers license to register.
Everything in this world is about money, only money
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Cycle to work schemes cover ebikes though, a £1,500 ebike on that scheme is far more appealing.
 
I think what's needed first is a complete infrastructure change to allow for more than 2 types of transport. Right now, the system is essentially set up for pedestrians and cars/vans. Lorries are mostly sort of pencilled in as being bigger cars (and fit very badly into the system in many built-up areas as a result). Motorbikes are mostly sort of pencilled in as being smaller cars (and have an increased death rate as a result). Bicycles are mostly sort of pencilled in as pedestrians but they're an even worse fit for the 2 category system and are only mostly ignored because they're already well established and it would be too much trouble to try to do anything with them. If they were a new invention, they would be much more tightly regulated.

Low power electric motorbikes (branded as "ebikes" for marketing reasons) don't fit into the system. Other low powered transport with even less safety fit into it even worse, but nobody is after even trying to make them even reasonably safe. That would be an inconvenient restriction for users.
 
Energize said:
Cycle to work schemes cover ebikes though, a £1,500 ebike on that scheme is far more appealing.
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We looked at a cycle to work scheme at our company.
You never actually own the bike so it was decided against.
I personally wouldnt spend less than 2k on an ebike anyway, I dont want a hub drive or cheap components
 
finga said:
We looked at a cycle to work scheme at our company.
You never actually own the bike so it was decided against.
I personally wouldnt spend less than 2k on an ebike anyway, I dont want a hub drive or cheap components
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It's yours after 4 years.
On a £800 bike I actually only saved around £80 but it took 4 years to be mine.
 
finga said:
We looked at a cycle to work scheme at our company.
You never actually own the bike so it was decided against.
I personally wouldnt spend less than 2k on an ebike anyway, I dont want a hub drive or cheap components
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Nonsense, it's your after 12 months and you save 32-42% via salary sacrifice.
 
Energize said:
Nonsense, it's your after 12 months and you save 32-42% via salary sacrifice.
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no its not nonsense, we did look at it, and it was as I said at the time.

what Greyfox said rings a bell, you dont own the bike until the end of the payments, which I seem to recall being such a long period of time that to me it was the life expectancy of the bike, preventing the sale of it whilst still worth anything.
 
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