Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

bigmike20vt said:
imagine if every new build house had solar.... or where that wasnt appropriate had a house battery instead (option for buyer to pay for both but one of the 2 needed as a minimum)

if carparks like at sainsburys had big solar roofs covering large sections of the car park (i dont mean a dome, just the kind of open roof running along the parking bays that some have already albeit without solar at the moment. - it would keep cars cool and dry as well as generate power (ideally for the charge points which they would also have installed). The bonus here is places like that use a huge amount of power anyway, as well as any charge points they have, so it wont even lead to a glut of power that the grid needs to handle, as am sure it would mostly get used right on site. it would just mean heavily reduced demand from the grid.

if on every new industrial warehouse construction it had to have some solar, and also existing infrastructure where safe and practical to do so, when they needed reroofing or replacing solar was added.


that would mean a huge amount of solar without any need to have solar farms (should keep the nimby tossers happy) and also it would be a uniform level of power accross the country.

it would cost money, some of which would likely have to be from government. it is doable however, other countries have invested in stuff exactly like that.

ok it would only have a huge benefit for 6 months of the year, with slight benefit for 3 and naff all for the final 3..... but at the point where solar is at its worst, is where wind tends to be at its best.

if we had that kind of improvement to our network i would happily pay a little more on my standing charge to subsidise it.
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100% I agree.

New builds and solar. Hell I think I would even prescribe unless impossible all houses should be N/S orientated. Probably that roof design should be solar friendly. No silly positioning of vent stacks etc. (Can be low level if position critical but better to design them away)
I would actually go further and make in roof required for new builds. When you look at them they are quite superior, it saves on a load of the roof cost itself (roof tiles are not cheap)

Carparks, agree, like in France. I cannot imagine there would be a notable excess of power. Helps keep cars cool reducing demand for cooling when you set off, its obviously
I have a photo of whats clearly an old carpark thats been covered, and some new Tesla chargers put in (clearly black tarmac as opposed to grey of old)
Its just SOOO obvious its a complete no brainer!

This has been my thought since I got solar its such a no brainer, anywhere above ground, panel it up. No excuses.
I would ban any more ground based personally until we were up to a high percentage of available rooves completed to get an idea how much we have.
 
the N/S comment is interesting. i am not sure what would be best to be honest..... the increase in output of having panels on a south roof, vs the significantly longer period of production of an East/west install (but with less output over all)

either way both would make a difference.

i agree as well about making the panels part of the roof. no reason not to, it would probably knock £500-£1000 off the price due to the tiles, it looks better as well and no need for bird proofing to stop them nesting under the panels.
 
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Lots of bad weather is a reason not. UK has lots of dreary days, Im surprised if everywhere solar is the same timeline to repay its outlay cost. Somehow a big solar project went bust in Spain, they messed up the maths forcing large amounts of solar didnt work out in that much nicer climate, surprisingly.

Just wind and water I would think far more reliable in terms of repayment, I know solar efficiency did improve tons but theres better places in the world to put it then a rainy day in UK. One of my neighbours had thermal panels to heat the water since the 80's, it was an old farm setup so I guess it worked for them.
2ZR9Si3.png

interestingengineering.com

South Korean 20-Mile Solar 'Bike Highway' Generates Electricity

Putting a bicycle lane in the center of a highway is unusual; however, it produces more than enough electricity to power the lighting.
interestingengineering.com interestingengineering.com
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silversurfer said:
Lots of bad weather is a reason not. UK has lots of dreary days, Im surprised if everywhere solar is the same timeline to repay its outlay cost. Somehow a big solar project went bust in Spain, they messed up the maths forcing large amounts of solar didnt work out in that much nicer climate, surprisingly.

Just wind and water I would think far more reliable in terms of repayment, I know solar efficiency did improve tons but theres better places in the world to put it then a rainy day in UK. One of my neighbours had thermal panels to heat the water since the 80's, it was an old farm setup so I guess it worked for them.
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Commercial vs residential will be different models. Obviously commercial will usually have borrowings and need to sell their energy. Its probably they either couldn't sell it or maybe had some issue with connection.

Solar on residential should have a payback around the 6-9 year mark in the UK. The main benefit will of course be baked in since you can use (and store if you choose) your own energy.

I would be interested in the link to the spanish failed project however since I haven't heard of any others.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I remember reading about the failed Spanish solar thing. wasn't there shinanegans going on as well with it?
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It was basically a botched/crooked/government incentive scheme that went horribly wrong.

It's wasnt an issue with solar energy /technology itself.

newenergyreport.com

62,000 Spaniards are now bankrupt after investing in solar panels

Spain’s decision to inject subsidies into renewable energy 17 years ago prompted thousands of families to invest in solar energy. Now, approximately 62,000 Spaniards are bankrupt as their government failed to keep its promise. The Spanish government encouraged its citizens to invest in solar...
newenergyreport.com newenergyreport.com

TLDR., spanish people were encouraged to personaly invest in large scale solar farms., with the promise of subsidised electricity costs in return. The project collapsed due to mismanagement or possibly corruption and they were left out of pocket.
 
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www.cam.ac.uk

Clean, sustainable fuels made ‘from thin air’ and plastic waste

Researchers have demonstrated how carbon dioxide can be captured from industrial processes – or even directly from the air – and transformed into clean,
www.cam.ac.uk www.cam.ac.uk

“Instead of storing CO2 underground, like in CCS, we can capture it from the air and make clean fuel from it,” said Rahaman. “This way, we can cut out the fossil fuel industry from the process of fuel production, which can hopefully help us avoid climate destruction.”
 
Received my rates for the 1st July price cap for for my E7 electric supply

Standing charge (per day) 50.402p
Unit rate - Day (per kWh) 38.577p
Unit rate - Night (per kWh) 13.944p

Its shaved about 5p off day and 1.3p off night.

Just as well im a lowish user but still only about £120 a year difference to me on these prices
 
mattyfez said:
It was basically a botched/crooked/government incentive scheme that went horribly wrong.

It's wasnt an issue with solar energy /technology itself.

newenergyreport.com

62,000 Spaniards are now bankrupt after investing in solar panels

Spain’s decision to inject subsidies into renewable energy 17 years ago prompted thousands of families to invest in solar energy. Now, approximately 62,000 Spaniards are bankrupt as their government failed to keep its promise. The Spanish government encouraged its citizens to invest in solar...
newenergyreport.com newenergyreport.com

TLDR., spanish people were encouraged to personaly invest in large scale solar farms., with the promise of subsidised electricity costs in return. The project collapsed due to mismanagement or possibly corruption and they were left out of pocket.
Click to expand...

Thanks so very unlike what the post that silversurfer inferred then.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I remember reading about the failed Spanish solar thing. wasn't there shinanegans going on as well with it?
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northern ireland were equally corrupt - the farmers who had the big feed in subsidy - the politicians wern't strung up afaik for our lost tax money.


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business model where you buy a share in a UK solar farm still looks interesting - if I won't be in the property for 6+ years and don't want the capital investment/risk of panels;
the discussion on labour policy today where they acknowledge continued gas investment is needed, for peak demand times when the new wind&solar capacity still isn't enough;
that also adjusts the economics of personal panel investment - with decoupling everyone can expect tou tarif cheap off peak, but $$$ during peak times;
time shifting with home batteries, or car, gives you portability to another property.
 
Zenduri said:
Received my rates for the 1st July price cap for for my E7 electric supply

Standing charge (per day) 50.402p
Unit rate - Day (per kWh) 38.577p
Unit rate - Night (per kWh) 13.944p

Its shaved about 5p off day and 1.3p off night.

Just as well im a lowish user but still only about £120 a year difference to me on these prices
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Did you account for the standing charge increase?
 
Zenduri said:
No change in standing charges for me on an E7 tarrif
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The new SC for me, when I come off my fixed, from Eon Next is:

Elec - 61.3p/day
Gas - 27.11p/day

Both include VAT of 5%... That's for a "loyalty fix" for 12 months... If I just go onto SVR:

Elec - 64.75p/day
Gas - 30.57p/day

So essentially £1/day before I have done anything, or £30/month.

Bear in mind that in early 2022, my full monthly bill was £33 (Monthly DD) and it shows how things have increased massively in 12-18 months.


Taking the SoLR into account, have operating costs increased that much? Genuinely?
 
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platinum87 said:
Does anyone know or bother to answer.

How much would it cost to build battery backup storage which is equal to 2 weeks of energy used in the UK
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Best drop over to the home and garden solar thread ;)

Its an interesting question to which the first answer would be why and then for what
There are other techs for example hot sand that can be used for water heating.
So if you were for example trying to cope with no generation for 2 weeks simply storing just elec would not make sense, you would be better with other techs as well.
 
platinum87 said:
Does anyone know or bother to answer.

How much would it cost to build battery backup storage which is equal to 2 weeks of energy used in the UK
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not really doable. what is the average daily use (say 10kwh?) how many homes in UK (total guess - 30 million?) that by my maths would be 4200gigawat hrs alone and then there is industry

edit

according to world data uk uses 289.69 billion kWh per year

so that is 5.6 bilion kwh per week...

wow it really makes you realise the size of the task at hand.

www.worlddata.info

Energy consumption in the United Kingdom

Energy balance and production capacities in the United Kingdom including comparison with the USA
www.worlddata.info www.worlddata.info

it is why imo it is important that ultimately our cars provide some of the storage needed (as battery tech gets better maybe 20% of our car batteries could be put aside for that, so lets say on average 20kwh (assuming density improves)) and why we need to put solar on every roof, every carpark and all industry and why we need to ignore nimbys and put up a lot more wind and some more nuclear.
 
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