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I asked bard


The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would depend on the type of battery technology used. For lithium-ion batteries, the cost would be approximately $100 billion. For other battery technologies, such as pumped hydro, the cost would be lower.

Here is a breakdown of the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system using different battery technologies:

  • Lithium-ion batteries: $100 billion
  • Pumped hydro: $50 billion
  • Compressed air energy storage: $60 billion
  • Flow batteries: $80 billion
The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would also depend on the location of the system. For example, the cost would be higher in areas with a high cost of land and labor.

Overall, the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would be significant, but it is a cost that is becoming more affordable as battery technology continues to improve.

Here are some additional factors that would affect the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system:

  • The size and capacity of the individual batteries
  • The efficiency of the battery system
  • The lifespan of the batteries
  • The cost of maintenance and repairs
The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system is a complex issue, but it is one that is becoming increasingly important as the world transitions to a cleaner energy future.

The cost of lithium-ion batteries for energy storage has been declining in recent years. In 2019, the LCOE (levelized cost of energy) for lithium-ion battery storage was $187 per megawatt-hour (MWh). By the first quarter of 2023, the LCOE had dropped to $150 per MWh for battery storage with four hours' discharge duration. This is a decline of 76% since 2012.

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Feels cheap to me, i suspect the number is wrong?
 
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platinum87 said:
I asked bard


The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would depend on the type of battery technology used. For lithium-ion batteries, the cost would be approximately $100 billion. For other battery technologies, such as pumped hydro, the cost would be lower.

Here is a breakdown of the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system using different battery technologies:

  • Lithium-ion batteries: $100 billion
  • Pumped hydro: $50 billion
  • Compressed air energy storage: $60 billion
  • Flow batteries: $80 billion
The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would also depend on the location of the system. For example, the cost would be higher in areas with a high cost of land and labor.

Overall, the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system would be significant, but it is a cost that is becoming more affordable as battery technology continues to improve.

Here are some additional factors that would affect the cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system:

  • The size and capacity of the individual batteries
  • The efficiency of the battery system
  • The lifespan of the batteries
  • The cost of maintenance and repairs
The cost of building an 11 terawatt battery storage system is a complex issue, but it is one that is becoming increasingly important as the world transitions to a cleaner energy future.

The cost of lithium-ion batteries for energy storage has been declining in recent years. In 2019, the LCOE (levelized cost of energy) for lithium-ion battery storage was $187 per megawatt-hour (MWh). By the first quarter of 2023, the LCOE had dropped to $150 per MWh for battery storage with four hours' discharge duration. This is a decline of 76% since 2012.

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Feels cheap to me, i suspect the number is wrong?
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Its probably a reasonable mid point. In reality as I said you wouldn't do it that way anyway.
 
It’s much easier and significantly cheaper to over provision renewables and put in place a load of interconnects to bolster the European super grid.

We already have a few with France, Norway, Denmark and Ireland. Building more is a no brainer. We are currently a net importer on those interconnects but that doesn’t need to stay that way. There are loads of opportunities to sell cheap wind power into the mainland (E.g. Spain) when the sun isn’t shining like at night when our demand is low.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s much easier and significantly cheaper to over provision renewables and put in place a load of interconnects to bolster the European super grid.

We already have a few with France, Norway, Denmark and Ireland. Building more is a no brainer. We are currently a net importer on those interconnects but that doesn’t need to stay that way. There are loads of opportunities to sell cheap wind power into the mainland (E.g. Spain) when the sun isn’t shining like at night when our demand is low.
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wow Europe working in a united way towards a common goal is better than going it alone.............who'd a thunk it? ;)
 
bigmike20vt said:
wow Europe working in a united way towards a common goal is better than going it alone.............who'd a thunk it? ;)
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Wont catch on
(over here)

I for one would rather sit in the cold than use spanish electrons

b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s much easier and significantly cheaper to over provision renewables and put in place a load of interconnects to bolster the European super grid.

We already have a few with France, Norway, Denmark and Ireland. Building more is a no brainer. We are currently a net importer on those interconnects but that doesn’t need to stay that way. There are loads of opportunities to sell cheap wind power into the mainland (E.g. Spain) when the sun isn’t shining like at night when our demand is low.
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Yeah totally.
There is still massive scope for far more wind and solar generation to be added.
I would say potential generation of 3x our daily national need on each of them would be a good point to aim at.

Then storage starts to be much more about smoothing, with the other techs filling in spikes and dips.

Assuming we do eventually get nukes to around 20% of daily.

TOU tariffs for all, or very expensive if you want to remain on dumb meters should help a lot as well
 
Richie said:
I've said it a few times on here and usually just get told that they are not that bad in the bigger picture *shrug*

I guess it becomes a problem for people as it approaches their own arbitrary "thresholds"
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I personally am fine with the SC so long as that money is going into improving the infrastructure and promoting green energy. (with in reason of course... we all have our arbitrary thresholds. IF i trusted the system (I dont) and i believed the money really was going to installing new renewables and upgrading the grid i would probably even stomach £1 a day.

if it is going towards share holder profits and bailing out poorly managed failed business then i am not so happy about it.....is there a genuine breakdown somewhere on where the costs of the SC go?
 
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The reason why i can forgive them putting a bit on SC (so long as it goes to the right places) is... people like myself and a few others on here are fortunate enough to have solar. for 6 months+ of the year we generate the electricity we need.
therefore the grid are not making any money from us..... but we still do need infrastructure that is reliable to our properties...... and without a Standing charge then those fees would ultimately fall on people not fortunate enough to be able to afford solar to essentially subsidise the infrastructure for us, which seems a little unfair.

i think we deserve to have geniine costings of it however
 
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bigmike20vt said:
The reason why i can forgive them putting a bit on SC (so long as it goes to the right places) is... people like myself and a few others on here are fortunate enough to have solar. for 6 months+ of the year we generate the electricity we need.
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Get where your coming from but the difference in buy vs sell price of electricity should really cover the infrastructure investment - they are ripping off us micro-generators :D
 
Octopus gas has been back down last couple of days so looks like the 5p+ day was a blip

I do wonder if we will see variable SCs again once the majority on the cap thing vanishes.
It was certainly normal for deals to vary it, it was part of the price comparison and why it was important to have an idea of your usage.
I suspect they will and most of the drama about the SC will quietly fade away.
 
Flexible Octopus November 2022 v1
Prices follow wholesale costs

DAY RATE NIGHT RATE
44.25 p/kWh 17.74 p/kWh
STANDING CHARGE
45.66p/day

Shocking... Night rate has gone up to 17.7 from 15.2. However during the day currently most of the Solar Power is in use for most of the day rate now ;p
 
Richie said:
The new SC for me, when I come off my fixed, from Eon Next is:

Elec - 61.3p/day
Gas - 27.11p/day

Both include VAT of 5%... That's for a "loyalty fix" for 12 months... If I just go onto SVR:

Elec - 64.75p/day
Gas - 30.57p/day

So essentially £1/day before I have done anything, or £30/month.

Bear in mind that in early 2022, my full monthly bill was £33 (Monthly DD) and it shows how things have increased massively in 12-18 months.


Taking the SoLR into account, have operating costs increased that much? Genuinely?
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you need to look into octopus

im paying 52.32 SC for elec and 27.46 for gas
 
Regarding Standing Charges the breakdown Octopus gives me on my current electricity rate of 47.52p/day is:

Metering (9.03p)
Local distribution (25.66p)
Smart meter obligation (3.25p)
Admin, customer service & margin (7.32p)
VAT (2.26p)
 
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Richie is in Scotland from memory

Scotland is particularly stitched up in regards UK energy.

They have a larger network per head, so more to maintain per bill payer. So they have to pay for that, then
they do not benefit directly in regards the variable side since we all share that equally. When you consider Scotland has per head significantly higher generation from renewables.

A similar thing in the East with all the offshore here, but we are not penalised as badly as the Scots
 
SC should be the same regardless of region... If it's good enough to even out the variable side of the costs for the whole country, it's good enough to even out the fixed side of the costs
 
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