Soldato
Agree, my guess is it was related to the privatisation somehow.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
- Thread starter DXP55
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Agree, my guess is it was related to the privatisation somehow.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,905
I presume you mean 11TWh (TerraWattHours)
11TWh = 11,000 GWh
11,000GWh divide by 50GW (UK peak demand at moment) = 220 hours or about 9 days.
That's a chunky amount of storage.
11TWh = 11,000,000,000 kWh ( a kWh being a reasonable unit of storage for this question)
$100,000,000,000 for batteries divided by 11,000,000,000 kWh is less than $10/kWh. That is really cheap. I thought $100/kWh was the current holy grail for battery storage
Battery price per kwh 2023 | Statista
The cost of lithium-ion batteries per kWh decreased by 14 percent between 2022 and 2023. Lithium-ion battery price was about 139 U.S. dollars per kWh in 2023.
www.statista.com
I think it will need a step change in technology to hit $10/kWh because batteries are not an immature technology look at that statista graph.
edit: Bugger that graph is paywalled don't know if you be able to read it. But it shows Li-On battery prices per kWh going from $730 in 2013 to a plateau of $150/kWh in 2020-2021-2022
edit 2: also if anyone notices a blunder in my calcs let me know although they do line up with what I've previously done on a fag packet.
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Soldato
I presume you mean 11TWh (TerraWattHours)
11TWh = 11,000 GWh
11,000GWh divide by 50GW (UK peak demand at moment) = 220 hours or about 9 days.
That's a chunky amount of storage.
11TWh = 11,000,000,000 kWh ( a kWh being a reasonable unit of storage for this question)
$100,000,000,000 for batteries divided by 11,000,000,000 kWh is less than $10/kWh. That is really cheap. I thought $100/kWh was the current holy grail for battery storage
Battery price per kwh 2023 | Statista
The cost of lithium-ion batteries per kWh decreased by 14 percent between 2022 and 2023. Lithium-ion battery price was about 139 U.S. dollars per kWh in 2023.
I think it will need a step change in technology to hit $10/kWh because batteries are not an immature technology look at that statista graph.
edit: Bugger that graph is paywalled don't know if you be able to read it. But it shows Li-On battery prices per kWh going from $730 in 2013 to a plateau of $150/kWh in 2020-2021-2022
edit 2: also if anyone notices a blunder in my calcs let me know although they do line up with what I've previously done on a fag packet.
Only minor issue I can see is you used peak, you want daily total consumption.
Its probably not out by more than 30% or so however.
I do see however the UK total for 2021 was 334.2TWh, so per day that would be average of around 9.15TWh
(Electricity demand increased in 2021 to 334.2 TWh, up by 1.2 per cent from 2020.)
So 11TWh for a fortnight seems a smidge low.
I would go with 13TWh for a fortnight being the capacity required to store two weeks worth. (For both capacity required and usage figures)
guess bard misunderstood - and is looking to provide a battery for an (instantaneous) 11TW power for an undefined period - like to power the Hadron collider -
it doesn't permute the two units interchangeably in its neural brain.
e: TagEnergy and Harmony Energy have completed construction on the UK’s largest battery storage facility with a capacity of 99MWh. The $38m (£30m) development has a throughput of 49.5MW and lies near Luton, in the southeast of the UK. => 3.3 T£ for 11TWH
Largest UK battery energy storage facility comes online
TagEnergy and Harmony Energy have completed construction on the UK’s largest battery energy storage facility with a capacity of 99MWh.
www.power-technology.com
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Caporegime
wow Europe working in a united way towards a common goal is better than going it alone.............who'd a thunk it?
They are literally building the Viking Link down the road from me. You do not need to be in Europe to work towards a common goal.
Soldato
-27% for gas end of the month. Not sure that decline would continue into winter when its needed, we'll be lucky if it doesnt go back up. Pays to have a backup..
Can I say something silly and state its already been 'built' but left unused. Someone in engineering could calculate the mass of potential energy going through the Severn estuary everyday. I doubt its all going to be captured, efficiency wont be 100% but that line of thinking is far more likely to work where every day with turbines deployed its free energy. It should pay for itself and in any case the diversity and known quantity of produced energy daily would be useful.
I believe its correct to equate it to a battery, they can store or decide to release the energy on demand.
Can I say something silly and state its already been 'built' but left unused. Someone in engineering could calculate the mass of potential energy going through the Severn estuary everyday. I doubt its all going to be captured, efficiency wont be 100% but that line of thinking is far more likely to work where every day with turbines deployed its free energy. It should pay for itself and in any case the diversity and known quantity of produced energy daily would be useful.
I believe its correct to equate it to a battery, they can store or decide to release the energy on demand.
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You don't need the 'mega battery' to provide the long term power and therefore do not need to size for weeks of storage. A battery can come in various forms and the classic Lithium based storage is great for a quick instantaneous spike in demand before something bigger and less expensive can spin up such as thermal mass storage engines or physical such as gravitational potential mass storage.
Oh man thats bad news, I guess they will add a waiting list and the 9 month rejoin restriction to that now as well.
Before it had escaped those restrictions as it wasnt known to the masses.
Octopus have shown they dont like too many people on these tariff's, so there is a reason for it.
I expect the cheap electric has a limit, but also they were eating losses allowing only a 30 day cooldown period, because now if someone leaves agile for SVR, Octopus then have to hedge that energy, but the customer can still only after 30 days jump back on agile which then carries a risk to octopus (the risk being agile unit rates lower than what they paid for the hedged energy), I assume they accept as is only low numbers, but with electric tracker after it went on hotukdeals they have shown they werent willing to have that risk when the numbers get bigger.
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Wow those seem quite healthy margins, didnt realise they were that high. Also with the formula you posted the risk of cost spikes would seem to be considerably lower on the tracker.
So 40p wholesale would be costing 88p outside of 4-7pm on agile or £1 for 4-7pm, on Tracker it would be 55.5p. Thanks for this info, I think I am going to get myself on the electric tracker waiting list. I think that spike differential makes it worth it, and even now as you said tracker over an average day is slightly cheaper.
The main selling point Agile had over tracker is gone now (it was 21p SC which for 2023 standards is very cheap) with SC now similar to tracker SC.
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Associate
I've been a bit slack on keeping an eye on things recently. I'm with Eon currently but their flex rates online at this moment in time don't look that different to what I'm currently paying.
Current is:
Elec STD: 47.2p
Elec Unit: 32p
Gas STD: 27.7p
Gas Unit: 10p
NextFlex is saying
Elec STD: 49.6p
Elec Unit: 30.29p
Gas STD: 29.11p
Gas Unit: 7.61p
With my current usage swapping will save at most a few quid a month. Not sure why the standing charge rates you've been given are so high though. I guess I'll wait until July 1st and see what happens?
Soldato
Whats the SC on the Gas Tracker?? for octopus customers
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Soldato
Because different regions in the UK unfairly pay different SC rates... Something OFGEM don't appear to give two ***** about.
Here's a link to Octopus' July 2023 rates (PDF)
You can see how much the electric standing charge varies for each region. Lowest is London at 36.54p/day, up to 60.18p/day for N. Wales and Mersey (which is the region I'm in... grumble grumble...). That is a difference of £86.29/year.
You can see how much the electric standing charge varies for each region. Lowest is London at 36.54p/day, up to 60.18p/day for N. Wales and Mersey (which is the region I'm in... grumble grumble...). That is a difference of £86.29/year.
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2006
- Posts
- 7,295
indeed we (and be we i mean people more skilled than I) definitely need to make use of water, be it rivers or tidal. I think a trial is underway at the moment looking at tidal power on the Thames.
I always thought the River Thames already had hydro power...... but it seems i may have been wrong. as absolutely bone headed as it seems to me i think the plans that i thought were already implemented were shelved.
the Thames barrier - as a non expert - also seems like an opportunity for hydro.
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Commissario
Just had notice of my price reduction from July.
Electricity is down 9% and gas down 27%.
Nice work, Shell. Split it so that the majority of the reduction is on gas, when it's the time of year that practically zero gas is used due to no heating
Electricity is down 9% and gas down 27%.
Nice work, Shell. Split it so that the majority of the reduction is on gas, when it's the time of year that practically zero gas is used due to no heating
Soldato
Havent they both been reduced by 2p per kw…..so a 2p reduction on 33p (leccy) is 9% and a 2p reduction on 10p (gas) is 20%Just had notice of my price reduction from July.
Electricity is down 9% and gas down 27%.
Nice work, Shell. Split it so that the majority of the reduction is on gas, when it's the time of year that practically zero gas is used due to no heating
so showing the % is wrong really. Because they have both been reduced by the same monetory value.
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Commissario
Dunno, I didn't look at that, I just shouted at clouds (because I'm an old man).
Soldato
Folks... are there any downsides to switching suppliers for gas/elec at the moment provided the SC/unit rates are lower? I'm not going to miss out on anything re the price cap right?