Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Simon said:
You are the end of the distribution curve. How about getting the electricity cut off if the standing charge is such a hardship
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:cry: :cry: :cry:

Simon said:
Remind me why you standing charge is even required as a response to the benefit of smart meters.
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I was replying to the post about using Smart meters for surge charging. I responded that, while they charge rip-off SCs, why would I swap to a SM if they bring in Surge Charging on top. I am aware of the benefits of Smart Meters (lower charges if you shift usage etc) but the fact is, my usage is so low that any moving of my usage is minimal. A change to the SC would have a much greater effect.



Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Just a FWIW but those standing charges Richie quotes for 21 look low. I am wondering if he was an a tariff where the provider lowered the SC and increased the unit costs, low user tariff in effect
They used to exist and have pretty much all vanished now.
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Nope - standard 1 year fix deal which ended in mid 2022 (I can still access a June bill and is states - "Fix Online Exclusive v68" which was Eon (before Eon Next))...

I looked at the Bill covering 1st Dec 2021 - 28th Feb 2022, which is traditionally the highest usage (shortest daylight hours and coldest temps):

Elec
  • 283kWh @ 17.90p/kWh,
  • SC 7.5p/day
  • Total Bill £57.27 (incl VAT)
Gas
  • 2045kWh @ 3.44p/kWh,
  • SC 7.5p/day
  • Total Bill £77.20 (incl VAT)

Total bill for 90 days over Winter - £134.47 (£44.82/month, £1.49/day)


I would compare it with last Winter but, given the huge price hike caused by the Energy Crisis and the Government EPG, it wouldn't really be a fair comparison
 
flea.rider said:
thx but figured it out .. 450w of gpu .. eeeekkkk ordering a new one
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You could power limit/frame rate limit?

I do keep an eye on the RTSS power usage on my GPU because some games just want to chew up all the power even though they can look kind of basic doing it.

I expect Cyberpunk 2077 on full default to eat 350W of my GPU power, but some random RTS game really should be under 100W for example.

I'd often find that just limiting a game to 60 FPS when it's not fast paced action would see a good improvement in power reduction.

Other times, enabling DLSS would also help as it uses less.
 
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Richie said:
:cry: :cry: :cry:



I was replying to the post about using Smart meters for surge charging. I responded that, while they charge rip-off SCs, why would I swap to a SM if they bring in Surge Charging on top. I am aware of the benefits of Smart Meters (lower charges if you shift usage etc) but the fact is, my usage is so low that any moving of my usage is minimal. A change to the SC would have a much greater effect.





Nope - standard 1 year fix deal which ended in mid 2022 (I can still access a June bill and is states - "Fix Online Exclusive v68" which was Eon (before Eon Next))...

I looked at the Bill covering 1st Dec 2021 - 28th Feb 2022, which is traditionally the highest usage (shortest daylight hours and coldest temps):

Elec
  • 283kWh @ 17.90p/kWh,
  • SC 7.5p/day
  • Total Bill £57.27 (incl VAT)
Gas
  • 2045kWh @ 3.44p/kWh,
  • SC 7.5p/day
  • Total Bill £77.20 (incl VAT)

Total bill for 90 days over Winter - £134.47 (£44.82/month, £1.49/day)


I would compare it with last Winter but, given the huge price hike caused by the Energy Crisis and the Government EPG, it wouldn't really be a fair comparison
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You say nope, but I think they were beneficial rates.

I don't have pre 2022 easy to get apart from 2020
My 2020 rates were gas 16p per day and elec 18.46p per day (excl VAT if VAT is charged on them)

These are far more normal rates for daily SC from my recollection
 
HungryHippos said:
You could power limit/frame rate limit?

I do keep an eye on the RTSS power usage on my GPU because some games just want to chew up all the power even though they can look kind of basic doing it.

I expect Cyberpunk 2077 on full default to eat 350W of my GPU power, but some random RTS game really should be under 100W for example.

I'd often find that just limiting a game to 60 FPS when it's not fast paced action would see a good improvement in power reduction.

Other times, enabling DLSS would also help as it uses less.
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with online you don't want to limit your fps .. and it's online i play .. it's also down to your ms thats why i can't wait for full fiber in the next month or so :) i'll go from 18-30ms down to 6-8 .. yeah old (57) and need every advantage i can get :P
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
You say nope, but I think they were beneficial rates.

I don't have pre 2022 easy to get apart from 2020
My 2020 rates were gas 16p per day and elec 18.46p per day (excl VAT if VAT is charged on them)

These are far more normal rates for daily SC from my recollection
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So pre-energy crisis, providers offered different rates open to everyone in the form of competition??

I, respectfully, disagree they were preferential as they were available to anyone at the time

If I could go back further I would but my bills only go back as far as the end of 2021 and my previous providers over the preceding 10 years won't let me log in (guessing they have closed the accounts)
 
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Richie said:
So pre-energy crisis, providers offered different rates open to everyone in the form of competition??

I, respectfully, disagree they were preferential as they were available to anyone at the time

If I could go back further I would but my bills only go back as far as the end of 2021 and my previous providers over the preceding 10 years won't let me log in (guessing they have closed the accounts)
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I Can see back to 2019 on octopus with my old bulb bills
May 2019 standing charges on svr, electric 19.47p and gas also 19.47p.
 
Then I don't know what to say... You both obviously ended up on a poor tariff at the time *shrug*.

I'll try and post a copy of the bill later tonight if I can (hard to do on a phone as I'll need to edit the mpan out etc)... Failing that I'll do it at work tomorrow
 
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Richie said:
Then I don't know what to say... You both obviously ended up on a poor tariff at the time *shrug*.
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Well the unit rates were cheaper than yours, electric was 12.7p kWh. Considerably cheaper than yours at 17.9p so I think mkw is right here.

Still, even my electric standing charge is up well over 100%. How they justify an 80% uplift over general inflation, I just want to see the numbers but they arent available.
 
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200sols said:
Well the unit rates were cheaper than yours, electric was 12.7p kWh. Considerably cheaper than yours at 17.9p so I think mkw is right here.
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Perhaps you had preferential rates :p

I jest of course... What MKW says could be a possibility. In all honesty, I did what the vast majority did back then - pump your usage into a comparison site and see what popped up.


Overall, as you say below, my issue stands. If there are reasons for the SC to jump up so far, then explain it. What harm can it do if it's genuine?

200sols said:
Still, even my electric standing charge is up well over 100%. How they justify an 80% uplift over general inflation, I just want to see the numbers but they arent available.
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Richie said:
So pre-energy crisis, providers offered different rates open to everyone in the form of competition??

I, respectfully, disagree they were preferential as they were available to anyone at the time

If I could go back further I would but my bills only go back as far as the end of 2021 and my previous providers over the preceding 10 years won't let me log in (guessing they have closed the accounts)
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Yes they did, exactly that
As part of competition some would target low users with a setup that may win that switch, others with targets for high users etc

I said beneficial not preferential.

You would have had the option of other tariffs that would have had a more normal SC. 7.5p was NOT a normal SC in 2021.
 
Richie said:
Perhaps you had preferential rates :p

I jest of course... What MKW says could be a possibility. In all honesty, I did what the vast majority did back then - pump your usage into a comparison site and see what popped up.


Overall, as you say below, my issue stands. If there are reasons for the SC to jump up so far, then explain it. What harm can it do if it's genuine?
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What you put is PRECISELY why you put your usage into comparison sites in order to find the best tariff for you based on combination of SC and unit price.

IIRC my 2021 unit price was about 12p. For me its always been than SC is pretty much irrelevant, unit pricing made far more difference to my bills.
 
Richie said:
Overall, as you say below, my issue stands. If there are reasons for the SC to jump up so far, then explain it. What harm can it do if it's genuine?
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Back in 2019, OFGEM conducted a review into how various costs are recovered:

Targeted Charging Review: Decision and Impact Assessment

Ofgem publishes decision on Targeted Charging Review.
www.ofgem.gov.uk www.ofgem.gov.uk

In brief, this review moved a bunch of fixed costs from the unit rate over to the standing charge, making the price of energy more representative of the actual costs involved. The changes were supposed to come into effect as of April 2021, but got delayed a year through to April 2022.

There's a campaign by Martin Lewis & MSE to have the changes reverted to help lower income households reduce bills.
 
McPhee said:
Back in 2019, OFGEM conducted a review into how various costs are recovered:

Targeted Charging Review: Decision and Impact Assessment

Ofgem publishes decision on Targeted Charging Review.
www.ofgem.gov.uk www.ofgem.gov.uk

In brief, this review moved a bunch of fixed costs from the unit rate over to the standing charge, making the price of energy more representative of the actual costs involved. The changes were supposed to come into effect as of April 2021, but got delayed a year through to April 2022.

There's a campaign by Martin Lewis & MSE to have the changes reverted to help lower income households reduce bills.
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Its always going to be tricky to balance this, but my position has always been that fixed costs (and their replacements such a new lines) should be in SC
SC should cover the network IMO, or at least the vast majority of it
 
So been on the tracker for the last few months, I was worried about September as it had a price jump a year ago. It did get a little volatile in the last couple of weeks but it looks like it's trending down again.
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The next big test will be in December.

My bill has been averaging £90-£100 but I've been putting in £130 per month so I'll have a bit of a buffer in case it all goes to crap. But it'll interesting. Before moving over to the tracker my bill was more like £180-£200
 
Richie said:
Overall, as you say below, my issue stands. If there are reasons for the SC to jump up so far, then explain it. What harm can it do if it's genuine?
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forgot yesterday that the sc £170/pa green levie is also financing 'our' enhanced £7.5K heat pump (boiler upgrade) grant - stay warm.
...does look a bit like our BIK subsidy of company ev's
 
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