Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Troop]

Can't see it happening any time soon, would be great as I have at least 10 windfarms and one of the biggest, if not the biggest Hydro system in Europe, within 10 miles of my house.

Statkraft marks sixty-year anniversary of pioneering Welsh hydropower scheme

The milestone sees the launch of a new film, documenting the construction of Rheidol and its early years of operation, with contributions from former employees

www.statkraft.co.uk

 

[Simon]

True.
It wasn't a serious question though, it was in response to a troll post.

Hardly a troll post. Just because you are close to something doesn’t mean it should be cheaper.

Don’t understand why people near wind turbines should get cheap power. What would they do when it’s not windy. Suddenly people near an interconnect get cheaper electricity ??

 

[Diddums]

Hardly a troll post. Just because you are close to something doesn’t mean it should be cheaper.

Don’t understand why people near wind turbines should get cheap power. What would they do when it’s not windy. Suddenly people near an interconnect get cheaper electricity ??

Probably got something to do with storage capacity and unreliable wind. I very much doubt it has anything to do with noise pollution at all.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Hardly a troll post. Just because you are close to something doesn’t mean it should be cheaper.

Don’t understand why people near wind turbines should get cheap power. What would they do when it’s not windy. Suddenly people near an interconnect get cheaper electricity ??

Its quite simple.
There is generally objection to on shore because its an eye sore and people would prefer someone else has the eyesore.
If it takes a bit of a discount for those closeby to not refuse them it seems a balanced thing to do.
The people near them get the reduction when it is windy.

Its quite possible there is also local limits that are breached I dont know for onshore. I know that I get free elec from when offshore is high production as they cannot get it out of the region.
I assume there is some kind of similar issue locally to turbines when it high generation.

And yes troll post is talking about sea water when its not a substitution for tap water.
But yeah if you want some free water you could go and get some seawater.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Probably got something to do with storage capacity and unreliable wind. I very much doubt it has anything to do with noise pollution at all.

Most of the time the storage isn't near wind, although many solar farms are now starting to introduce some storage.
The generation peaks can be very high but it means you probably have a grid connection thats overspecced most of time.
If you add local storage then the peaks can be trimmed and the costs would go down, plus we are going to need storage anyway.

Storage in the south east / London makes most sense if space is found since the generation is far lower there, especially vs demand.
Again shaving the peaks since the more we use in the areas with least generation the more grid capacity has to be able to cope with those peaks.

Anyway, its been a long ongoing conversation with someone in the SE who thinks they should benefit from the economies of scale of local infrastructure, but that the price of the units should be the same for all no matter where they are generated.
Views will of course vary.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Its quite simple.
There is generally objection to on shore because its an eye sore and people would prefer someone else has the eyesore.
If it takes a bit of a discount for those closeby to not refuse them it seems a balanced thing to do.
The people near them get the reduction when it is windy.

I fully expect the discount needed for the staunch opponents of windfarms within 10's of miles of where they live will be significant. So significant that a small group of very vocal people will make such unreasonable demands, the windfarms will get built anyway and everyone will get nothing.

Personally I'm not that bothered, I live near the new pylon run going though the east, I really don't care, if anything I encourage them to stop talking about it and to get on and build it.

I see the Green party were out today trying to delay and frustrate the building of said pylons, oh the irony given its basically essential to unlock all the zero carbon energy being built off the cost of Norfolk/Suffolk. Any delay will laterally result in a massive amount of CO2 getting pumped into the atmosphere.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I fully expect the discount needed for the staunch opponents of windfarms within 10's of miles of where they live will be significant. So significant that a small group of very vocal people will make such unreasonable demands, the windfarms will get built anyway and everyone will get nothing.

Personally I'm not that bothered, I live near the new pylon run going though the east, I really don't care, if anything I encourage them to stop talking about it and to get on and build it.

I see the Green party were out today trying to delay and frustrate the building of said pylons, oh the irony given its basically essential to unlock all the zero carbon energy being built off the cost of Norfolk/Suffolk. Any delay will laterally result in a massive amount of CO2 getting pumped into the atmosphere.

Afaik the Octopus ones are self "imposed" discounts
I can imagine the fight being not about the turbine but we want an Octopus turbine that gives us a reduction rather than an XYC Co Ltd (foreign owned) one that doesn't.

I am pretty aligned with the current government general direction that local shouldn't trump national.

 

[Richie]

Anyway, its been a long ongoing conversation with someone in the SE who thinks they should benefit from the economies of scale of local infrastructure, but that the price of the units should be the same for all no matter where they are generated.
Views will of course vary.

That... is much better than I have been able to put it

 

[bigmike20vt]

Anyway, its been a long ongoing conversation with someone in the SE who thinks they should benefit from the economies of scale of local infrastructure, but that the price of the units should be the same for all no matter where they are generated.
Views will of course vary.

that sounds like the very definition of cakeism to me!. That said, currently we get pretty much the opposite of that in some areas (ie SC is massive for a few friends in the northwest living next door to a windfarm, but their unit cost is the same as i pay ......................so i guess that view is no more unfair than what we have now, just the other side of the coin.

i am not complaining personally..... i have a decent SC where i live but it doesnt mean i cant see it isnt fair really. yet another reason services should probably be nationalised (I say that despite not having a problem with companies like octopus) indeed energy generation is probably doing better privatised than most of our other essential services.

on one hand we should all probably pay the same rates imo, on both unit price and infrastructure.... on the other hand........ if we had that then there would be no insentive for nimbys to STFU! its not as simple as it 1st seems.

 

[rG-tom]

There you go, nice one, bet you're pleased, be a big saving for you.

Just remember the cheap rate is 00.30- 05.30.

23.30 -05.30*

 

[Troop]

23.30 -05.30*

Octopus GO cheap rate is 00.30-05.30am

 

[rG-tom]

Octopus GO cheap rate is 00.30-05.30am

sorry, i thought he was on intelligent GO

 

[bigmike20vt]

i wonder if Octopus renaming Intelligent Octopus to Intelligent Octopus Go hasn't created more confusion than if they had just kept it as was.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

that sounds like the very definition of cakeism to me!. That said, currently we get pretty much the opposite of that in some areas (ie SC is massive for a few friends in the northwest living next door to a windfarm, but their unit cost is the same as i pay ......................so i guess that view is no more unfair than what we have now, just the other side of the coin.

i am not complaining personally..... i have a decent SC where i live but it doesnt mean i cant see it isnt fair really. yet another reason services should probably be nationalised (I say that despite not having a problem with companies like octopus) indeed energy generation is probably doing better privatised than most of our other essential services.

on one hand we should all probably pay the same rates imo, on both unit price and infrastructure.... on the other hand........ if we had that then there would be no insentive for nimbys to STFU! its not as simple as it 1st seems.

Yes in the East we don't have particularly high SC and there is something odd in the NW as well.

I think the Scots get it particularly harsh in effect.
And its simply because the ways the costs are reflected and across what groups are not aligned.
There are some adjustments in some parts to do with the costs of the national level stuff and regional, but its pretty much impossible to get to any level of knowledge as to whether the majority would consider it fair.

Its not just wind, when significant construction is taking place there is disruption. I lived fairly close to Sizewell when the last one was being built. Ask anyone in a fairly large area around there what happened to the price of certain trades when that was happening.
Lots of disruption etc.
I certainly think there should be some nod to those affected. Octopus clearly think so too.

Its a tricky one and there is no right answer. But the world and generation are very different to how they were in the 20th century.

Its interesting as Octopus say they have people asking them to put wind near them. I imagine that sort of thing would be far more common if people saw the benefits individually as opposed to just the negatives (generally speaking)
I mean for all infrastructure. Houses, roads, HS2, etc etc

 

[200sols]

Yeah I seen that... I'm sure a certain @200sols will be along any time to give his take on it... Dont let me down chief

Without reading it all I am on holiday but it's the eyesore tax. I actually said they should just call it that. Cheaper energy is possible if people also accept expensive energy at certain times, but it's coupled with smart meters and people go all tin foil about those. Doesn't solve the SC issue though.

Actually spent the last week walking through areas with wind farms as well, don't get the issues people have with them to be honest.

 

[stuman]

Is anybody with tomato? Are they any good? Their tariff looks like it would save me quite a bit vs intelligent go - but octopus have been great for 3 years now….

 

[wesimmo]

I'm not sure how the costings for SC are calculated or how they are weighted between infrastructure and servicing of accounts but i do know that things like meter reading for people who don't have a smart meters and refuse to send readings in, as well as periodic checks on even those people that do, costs the industry millions per week.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I'm not sure how the costings for SC are calculated or how they are weighted between infrastructure and servicing of accounts but i do know that things like meter reading for people who don't have a smart meters and refuse to send readings in, as well as periodic checks on even those people that do, costs the industry millions per week.

unless a customer can show that a smart meter will not work for them (thick brick walls with no possiblily of reception) then imo those who are willfully not getting a smart meter should cover the majority of that fee surely?.

if people really do not want a smart meter for "reasons" well i guess that is up to them, but it does not seem fair that people with said smart meter are subsidising those refusing......... I dont mind for those with no other option but when its just stubborness it does grate a bit.

 

[wesimmo]

unless a customer can show that a smart meter will not work for them (thick brick walls with no possiblily of reception) then imo those who are willfully not getting a smart meter should cover the majority of that fee surely?.

if people really do not want a smart meter for "reasons" well i guess that is up to them, but it does not seem fair that people with said smart meter are subsidising those refusing......... I dont mind for those with no other option but when its just stubborness it does grate a bit.

Yep that makes sense to me too.

Whether it happens I don't know, I guess if we could find 2 people who are close geographically with the same provider and who did and didn't have a Smart meter we could check.

That said, generally, data management and analysis in the industry isn't great IME, so what should be simple in theory often isn't.

One amusing example is when your provider makes an appointment for a visit and asks you to provide a password that the engineer/reader will quote to prove they should be there, one company at least let's you set that as the customer.

A customer thought it would be amusing to make the meter reader have to say "Forest are the greatest football team in the Midlands" (names and geography changed for GDPR reasons...)

Unfortunately one of the data repositories that the info had to pass through couldn't handle a string that long and it broke everything until someone worked out why and how, delaying sending out meter readers to 10s of thousands of customers.

 

[slinxy]

I've switched today from octopus to british gas, it's slighty more than I'm paying at the moment in both standing charge and per unit but I'm moving from a variable to a fix rate. Only time will tell if this was a wise move..