I can kind of understand it LOL - driving a similar size vehicle I've a few times had people park up in the next bay right on the line near me when the car park is more than half empty... never mind the people who don't give a **** around other people's vehicles.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
- Thread starter DXP55
- Start date
I can kind of understand it LOL - driving a similar size vehicle I've a few times had people park up in the next bay right on the line near me when the car park is more than half empty... never mind the people who don't give a **** around other people's vehicles.
The only reason hydrogen powered cars haven't taken off yet is because no governments are behind it, due mostly to lobbying from Tesla/etc.
It will be interesting to see if manufacturers of battery electric vehicles can overcome their range/charging issues before the general public realise how superior hydrogen cars are to present BEVs, if that happens and global demand rises then governments will have no choice but to back it.
Soldato
Yeah but it's still better than oil, and it doesn't fill cities with poison. Still better to use electric obvs, but if you can't charge, or want a plugin hybrid, or just think it's a more efficient use of battery elements, then hydrogen is useful.
Associate
Electrolysis is very energy intensive (and Google suggest 80% efficient). The big problem with BEV and HV is where is the electricity coming from.
If it’s not from green (I included nuclear) then you are just moving the problem. HV is always going to be 20% worse than BEV.
Suspended
Surely the benefit, even if the energy comes from dirty source, is that it's only being produced in 1 place so it's very easy to filter and deal with the waste, where as 200k cars don't do such a good job and it's being spread directly into cities etc, instead of one facility, in say, Nottingham, just dirtying up that place as no one really cares for it, while the rest of the UK stays clean and fresh
You really need to actually look at why hydrogen cars have not taken off and it’s not because of lobbying from tesla. You’d be hard pressed for the US government to even acknowledge Tesla even exists, it’s crazy given what they have actually achieved.
E.g. https://electrek.co/2021/11/18/pres...-electrifying-entire-auto-industry-wrong/amp/
Quite a few governments are behind it, particularly Japan but even our own is ploughing millions into it.
Hydrogen hasn’t taken off because the economics of it. For every hydrogen car Toyota ‘sell’, they loose thousands of pounds, they also need to give you a pre-paid fuel card because hydrogen actually costs more at the pump than petrol/diesel. For every mile one of these things drives, it’s costs Toyota an absolute fortune.
When you compare that to a BEV which can be sold with large positive margins and you can power it for 2p a mile, it’s no wonder hydrogen isn’t taking off.
Green hydrogen will always cost at least 6x that of a BEV because that’s how much electricity is consumed in the production and transport process.
Soldato
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I reckon a big power plant is easier to have filters on, wasn't there a pic a few years ago, where modern hgvs put out the same amount of pollution as a polo. I think it's that the hgvs could absorb some of the cost, and have the space for bigger/better filters.Surely the benefit, even if the energy comes from dirty source, is that it's only being produced in 1 place so it's very easy to filter and deal with the waste, where as 200k cars don't do such a good job and it's being spread directly into cities etc, instead of one facility, in say, Nottingham, just dirtying up that place as no one really cares for it, while the rest of the UK stays clean and fresh
Soldato
I think whoever takes over from Boris is sunk before they start due to this situation. Both the Tories and Labour are responsible for 20+ years of energy strategy mismanagement. When renewable energy can be sold to the UK market at the strike price for oil and gas based electricity generation there is one inherent issue. Coupled with the fact that our nuclear baseline is not sufficient to insulate us from the spike in cost is a huge strategic failure, a direct result of pandering to misplaced environmental concerns. A government elected on a mandate based on whimsical popularity is not a recipe for putting together a cohesive multi-generational energy strategy as it becomes a vote wining tactic and gets shredded every 4-8 years... If we have in any way a harsh winter, this December/January/February will be grim and the NHS is about to be overwhelmed.
Soldato
Exactly this. We mentioned it in some thread before the crazy prices kicked in and I recall one joker was posting things like tidal systems and nuclear were useless. Roll on a few months and now its exactly what we should have been ploughing money into amongst other projects to offset some of this reliance on fossil fuels and actually get somewhere near to clean energy targets!
Soldato
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hydrogen will be great when it is made from clean energy. until then it is a really inefficient way of getting power to your car. battery isn't perfect but a lot of them will be charged from overnight "greener" energy and in my case at least (when I can afford one) directly from the sun.
hydrogen is going to be vital as a way to store excess energy from renewables but my understanding is we are not there yet. even when we are as I said I would have thought it would be better used in larger vehicles .
but hydrogen made from fossil fuels am sure shell and BPnwould support but not sure its as green as a battery in family vehicles..... esp when modern batteries should last up to 30 years now with a 2nd life in a home battery and 3rd life in say street lamps before being recycles.
Soldato
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tidal power is surely vital for an island country like ours. I won't lie nuclear does worry me. not only getting rid of the waste but if some nut job or foreign government financed terrorist managed to damage one.......
it is a shame. whilst as a country we have done better than most WRT renewables if they had done more 25 years ago it wouldn't be such a mad panic now. as it is nuclear is going to have to play a temporary part in the carbon zero goal, but long term I would like to see the back of it and would prefer they made the most from existing plants rather than building new. (but I dunno if that is realistic or not...... I can't help but think the costs of new nuclear plants would pay for a lot of renewable infrastructure however Inc manufacture of the tools needed.
Soldato
Yeah we need a mixture/balance of all so that when the wind doesn't blow and the sun is pants it copes. Working with other countries like Norway using interconnectors can also assist. The bread and butter should always be pushing for renewables so resources are spread as best possible but yeah the tidal system was a no brainer then and like now is quite embarrassing it never got stamped.
Soldato
One man's survival of the fittest is another man's race to the bottom.
Imagine if over the last 20 years we spent the whole time investing in nuclear power and converting peoples heating over to electric (from the nuclear power). We'd be completely isolated from Russia's rubbish.
And putting solar panels on peoples roofs.
It was the answer and we ignored it.
And putting solar panels on peoples roofs.
It was the answer and we ignored it.
The world's 'live for the moment' will be it's undoing.
We never make changes until its too late.
Wait until the climate really gets bad. And we suddenly try to change. But it's long too late.
As a species perfectly capable of mitigation of this disaster, not able to use "in hindsight" after we kind of deserve what we are going to get.
We've been told time and again what's coming. It'll make covid and this inflation period look like a cake walk.
Boggles the mind.
Permabanned
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Problems are not resolved single handed. It takes globsal effort.
It amazes me that all new build aren't required to have solar panels.Imagine if over the last 20 years we spent the whole time investing in nuclear power and converting peoples heating over to electric (from the nuclear power). We'd be completely isolated from Russia's rubbish.
And putting solar panels on peoples roofs.
It was the answer and we ignored it.
Government should go a lot further in encouraging others to have them fitted as well.
I'd be happy with a 0% loan or similar to be honest, would like prices to come down a bit though as well.
Soldato
They are more than happy enough to promote Heat pumps though...
Which is why it'll never happen. "they aren't doing it so we won't"