Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Tom_ed1987 said:
A quick Google suggests a fracking site can be constructed and online within 5 months... Could the govt not throw everything in the direction of the fracking companies (permissions, investment etc) to allow them to accelerate extraction, on the proviso of some sort of price guarantee & ringfenced output for domestic supply?

Right now the energy crisis trumps the climate crisis imo
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It would make zero difference because the gas is sold on the open market and the increase in supply would be negligible.
 
bigmike20vt said:
indeed. 25+ years of listening to climate change deniers have got us in this mess....... and our governments have actually done more than most in terms of building renewable generation.
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Don't blame the individuals, they have been conditioned, the same way many were duped into Brexit. Stuff like finding one person who disagrees then managing to make out the science is disputed, paying people who don't agree to write articles etc

The BBC (for those old school and unhip enough to not have cancelled their TV licence) just had a series on which I think was partly US backed, very eye opening.
Some of the stuff it details and shows is really eye opening

Its called Big Oil v the World, 3x 1 hour episodes, even the 3 episode titles give a lot away "Denial", "Doubt" and finally "Delay"

When they show the old Exxon based climate studies from 40 years ago they show they realised we would see warming, and predicted it, and got it right its really depressing.
They knew, they lied, then they created doubt and finally did everything they could to delay.

If you can watch it, 100%
 
Unfortunately if there was some way gas or any other commodity could be sold cheaply within the UK, there would be someone somewhere that would exploit the hell out of it for giga profits by selling it to someone else.
 
Tom_ed1987 said:
Why does it have to be sold on the open market?
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Because we have a 100% privatised (well the profits, but that is another conversation) energy system.

Even if the government wanted to spin up their own company (they don’t), they don’t have the skills or knowledge to do it any more.

That’s putting aside the fact that fracking is a horrible practice and comes with huge risks which is why it’s ‘banned’.

As for coal, where do people think we are going to burn it? All our plants bar one (or two?) have been decommissioned (I think most are fully or partially demolished at this point) and it would take years to spin up a new one.
 
I'm finding it interesting how much anger is being thrown towards the Energy Suppliers, e.g. British Gas, EDF, Scottish, Octopus, etc etc.
They're absolutely not our friends, but they're making either less profits or a loss in early 2022 and things are going to get worse for them and us as winter 2022 hits.

The real ***** (as usual) are the lovely gas and oil suppliers, who are absolutely rinsing the situation. The government giving £400 energy relief is a ******* joke, they're giving money to Shell, BP and all the other ******** who have been screwing the planet for decades.

A government with any backbone would be attacking the oil giants, but so far... nothing... Shows how corrupt, or unbelievably inept, our current batch of MPs are.

On a final note, it is understandable energy prices are higher this year, but huge profits of oil & gas suppliers is BS and the that's where the gov should step in - not capping the energy prices of the suppliers who run at razor thin margins.


Oh and the UK could have easily avoided such extreme sensitivity to global wholesale markets by having a sensible energy strategy, but as usual, they ignored the writing on the wall for 2 decades and here we are.

I'm a smug ******* right now, and was saying something like this would happen about 5 years ago, purely based on the infrastructure situation of the UK. Spent most of my disposable income over the last 5 years on insulation, solar, off-grid capable battery, heat pump, etc. ~£50k all up. When the power goes out, I'll have light & hot water...
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
When they show the old Exxon based climate studies from 40 years ago they show they realised we would see warming, and predicted it, and got it right its really depressing.
They knew, they lied, then they created doubt and finally did everything they could to delay.

If you can watch it, 100%
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If you start to look too closely into how the world actually operates its hard not to be depressed. Its corrupt and disgusting at pretty much every turn and companies have destroyed lives and ruined the planet in the name of profit and they have done so with their eyes wide open. The don't care and they are never held to account. Every industry where there is money to be made is corrupt. Every single one.
 
I chose not to have off grid support. it would have been nice but I didn't realise how expensive it was. my hope is if things get bad we will get brownouts rather than blackouts that way my batter which will be charged when demand is low and my solar will shield me from them. if we get blackouts however. I am stuffed.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
I'm a smug ******* right now, and was saying something like this would happen about 5 years ago, purely based on the infrastructure situation of the UK. Spent most of my disposable income over the last 5 years on insulation, solar, off-grid capable battery, heat pump, etc. ~£50k all up. When the power goes out, I'll have light & hot water...
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I mean thats all good stuff, but you spent 50 grand/ circa 15 years worth of bills. :cry:

I would have spent it on a bunker for when the real **** hits the fan.
 
Holy ****, just to continue my rant this was front page of financial times: "Centrica urges more state help with energy bills", meaning Centrica are big in wholesale trade of gas as well as suppliers of gas into the wholesale market and are making extraordinary profits. They also own British gas who are making meagre profits.

So either the wholesale traders of gas/wholesale suppliers of gas are screwing us, or there is some dodgy accounting and profits from British Gas are somehow making their way into the parent company.

It is so evil that you couldn't make this stuff up.
 
0h_no_not_again said:
I'm finding it interesting how much anger is being thrown towards the Energy Suppliers, e.g. British Gas, EDF, Scottish, Octopus, etc etc.
They're absolutely not our friends, but they're making either less profits or a loss in early 2022 and things are going to get worse for them and us as winter 2022 hits.
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www.theguardian.com

‘An insult’: huge profits at Shell and Centrica cause outrage amid soaring energy bills

News of billion-pound profits comes after UK households warned average annual bill could hit £3,850 by 2023
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
0h_no_not_again said:
Holy ****, just to continue my rant this was front page of financial times: "Centrica urges more state help with energy bills", meaning Centrica are big in wholesale trade of gas as well as suppliers of gas into the wholesale market and are making extraordinary profits. They also own British gas who are making meagre profits.

So either the wholesale traders of gas/wholesale suppliers of gas are screwing us, or there is some dodgy accounting and profits from British Gas are somehow making their way into the parent company.

It is so evil that you couldn't make this stuff up.
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i can firmly say its the former not the latter. The profits for retail energy sales to residential homes are very slim and no supplier really wants residential gas and elec supplies due to the cost and very slim margins but kinda have to have domestic supplies in order to be able to play in the business/industry energy supply market which is by far more lucrative.

For example when Npower was for sale, EON wanted just the business and industry supply business as it was v profitable but the residential side was horribly loss making. Regulators barred the splitting of the business and said if they wanted the business and industry supply of Npower they also HAD to take on the residential supply business.. which they ended up doing.
 
shell makes similar profits from trading/futures, as extracting oil, those aren't included in windfall tax, but really, any third party could set themselves up in that business.


german approach they have been highlighting today turning off lighting on public buildings, adjusting water temp in public facilities ...
I don't expect to see HofP debates with people wearing shirt sleeves.


b0rn2sk8 said:
Because we have a 100% privatised (well the profits, but that is another conversation) energy system.
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NO eg.
Extraction/fracking can be financed under a cfd contract , so the energy company has to give surplus money back to the tax pay/govt.
( there is a newer financing method too https://www.power-technology.com/news/uk-funding-model-nuclear/ )
 
Just to play devils advocate, but are centrica really making extraordinary profits?

When I ran the numbers for 2021 yesterday, their profit margin was about 5.5%. £18bn turnover with just under £1bn profit, not exactly taking it in.

For context, Apple has a net profit margin of about 25%.
 
chroniclard said:
I mean thats all good stuff, but you spent 50 grand/ circa 15 years worth of bills. :cry:

I would have spent it on a bunker for when the real **** hits the fan.
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The thing is, its environmental payback is 1-2 years, it improves your house value and improves comfort (humidity control, no mould, etc). I would have done it even without financial benefit. Meanwhile people pay £50k for fancy cars that give you what? Slightly better comfort? Slightly better performance?

Importantly, the economic payback is not 15 years. Think 7-8 as the house was _really_ inefficient and the EV literally costs £100 per year to service and nothing more.
If you were doing renovations at the same time, it would cost ~£20k, and would have a much shorter payback.

Finally, it is only expensive because things like external wall insulation & heat pumps are so rarely done and the expertise is limited. Improve the supply of such services and the prices will come down a lot.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I chose not to have off grid support. it would have been nice but I didn't realise how expensive it was. my hope is if things get bad we will get brownouts rather than blackouts that way my batter which will be charged when demand is low and my solar will shield me from them. if we get blackouts however. I am stuffed.
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100% mate. I was really surprised at how much it costs.
I ended up going for a limited off-grid setup of 5kVA, which is enough for the heat-pump to charge the DHW, run the induction hob or do some washing (individually, not together).
 
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