Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

You say the prices havent changed on the meter until you used the new key accidently which implies they were updated, then you say the prices havent updated on the meter. You're not making any sense. Either they did update or they didnt.

I'm tapping out for a bit, this threads making my brain hurt
 
You say the prices havent changed on the meter until you used the new key accidently once, then you say the prices havent updated on the meter. You're not making any sense. Either they did update or they didnt.
Sorry some confusion. They only seem to alter the tariff if you use the new key provided. For example I was on a tariff from a company called ourpower 17p day rate and 7p night rate. They went bust and I was moved to another supplier. I didn’t use their key so I immediately switched to edf, didn’t use their key either for nearly a year. My unit rate never changed until I somehow managed to get the ourpower key mixed up with the edf key. Meaning they can’t force me to use their new fantastic rip off new tariffs unless I choose to.
 
In theory the old key should have been disabled at some point but it obviously wasn’t for whatever reason.

Normally the rates are transferred onto the key when you top up. The key updates the meter when you plug it in, the rates are transferred to the meter. So as soon as your existing key runs out of credit, you’ll need to top it up and the key will update the rates.

It’s a mute point anyway as new PAYG meters don’t use that process anymore so if your put in one the rates are updated over the air.
 
Sorry some confusion. They only seem to alter the tariff if you use the new key provided. For example I was on a tariff from a company called ourpower 17p day rate and 7p night rate. They went bust and I was moved to another supplier. I didn’t use their key so I immediately switched to edf, didn’t use their key either for nearly a year. My unit rate never changed until I somehow managed to get the ourpower key mixed up with the edf key. Meaning they can’t force me to use their new fantastic rip off new tariffs unless I choose to.
Tapping back in :D

That makes MUCH more sense! Yes the key pushes the prices to the meter however the price still updates on the supplier side system so there will be a discrepency bewteen the too if you dont push the update by using the older key. Martin lLewis ****** a load of people earlier this year by telling people to preload on PAYG meters before 1st April so they get cheap rates for longer but then had to come out with an apology video basically saying, yeah a lot of suppliers will enforce the price correction and backdate it when you do eventually use the right key and the supplier side price change will be correct so in theory you may then owe money when eventually the payg and supplier side systems tally up at some point.

All it's doing is kicking the price increase down the road and paying for it later
 
Tapping back in :D

That makes MUCH more sense! Yes the key pushes the prices to the meter however the price still updates on the supplier side system so there will be a discrepency bewteen the too if you dont push the update by using the older key. Martin lLewis ****** a load of people earlier this year by telling people to preload on PAYG meters before 1st April so they get cheap rates for longer but then had to come out with an apology video basically saying, yeah a lot of suppliers will enforce the price correction and backdate it when you do eventually use the right key and the supplier side price change will be correct so in theory you may then owe money when eventually the payg and supplier side systems tally up at some point.
so basically I’ll just do what I did before and I either save an arm and a leg or I have to sell my arm and my leg to pay electricity this winter if they backdate it.

I nearly switched to a smart meter edf kept badgering me. Decided not to because they would only pay me for units exported rather than the usual deemed solar generation. Kind of glad I did. :D
 
Similar happened to a mates GF some years back

Eventually they caught up with her and did something to her meter that meant it charged an even higher rate to catchup the backlog.
(I think they forced a visit and updated it with a key, and disabled her old key that was causing issues but its some years ago now so details a little hazy)

From recollection she still had an account with them but the meter is supposed to mean you cant fall behind, but she managed to
 
I think we have to agree to not see eye to eye on this. If gas goes up 80% and elec goes up 20% and i'm an all electric user, telling me a dual fuel users bill will go up 77% for example really makes no sense to me. Giving specific percentages to each unit price is MUCH more accurate and beneficial to people to understand how this will impact them.

If i use £1200 of elec a year and elec goes up 20% it doesnt take a genius to work out how it would effect me and would give a much better idea of my costs instead of a 77% increase to a "dual fuel average houshold"

Anyway im not going to continue with this as its kinda pointless

Yes...obviously if you compare average price increases of an electric-only bill vs a combined fuel bill then it'll be more accurate for an electric-only user :confused:
That's not what you said in your original post and not what I said in any of my posts so I've no idea what point you're trying to make?

Obviously, we're not understanding each other, so yes, lets leave it there :)
 
I realise it is a complex process. Perhaps the issue is simply transparancy then. I believe reports on national infrastructure should be public in all cases so they can be scrutinised.

Would show up a lot of poor/incomplete decision making imo.

transparancy is pointless because the general public will have no way of actually intepreting the data unless they have all done as many hours on Nuclear Power Station Simulator in steam as you have done. Your argument is basically pointless. We have epxerts that are highly qualified and paid to make these decisions based on experience and knowledge. I trust them to make the correct decisions to ensure that such plants are run safely and decomissioned appropriately once they have reached the end of their safe servicable life.

Unless you can show me your extensive qualificaitns in nuclear physics, nuclear engineering and other relevant technical qualificaitons required to safely operate a nuclear reactor you have no business trying to scrutinise data or second guess their expert opinion.
 
transparancy is pointless because the general public will have no way of actually intepreting the data unless they have all done as many hours on Nuclear Power Station Simulator in steam as you have done. Your argument is basically pointless. We have epxerts that are highly qualified and paid to make these decisions based on experience and knowledge. I trust them to make the correct decisions to ensure that such plants are run safely and decomissioned appropriately once they have reached the end of their safe servicable life.

Unless you can show me your extensive qualificaitns in nuclear physics, nuclear engineering and other relevant technical qualificaitons required to safely operate a nuclear reactor you have no business trying to scrutinise data or second guess their expert opinion.

Did you trust the experts to have a solid national energy strategy too? Or did you trust the experts to have undertaken all the right flood defenses around Tewkesbury in 2007? Or did you trust the experts to have run Covid loans properly or PPE contracts? Or how about trusting the experts on the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster? Do you trust the experts doctors that make blunders in the NHS? Or how about the experts that built the Millennium Dome or any number of other national projects that went over budget?

Experts get things right the vast majority of the time, but they get things wrong too. All the examples above are where they got things wrong the wrong way, i.e bad things happened. But how many decisions get taken that may be wrong, but because no bad thing happened you never hear of it again. There is still a loss though in these cases because it creates inefficiency.
 
Did you trust the experts to have a solid national energy strategy too? Or did you trust the experts to have undertaken all the right flood defenses around Tewkesbury in 2007? Or did you trust the experts to have run Covid loans properly or PPE contracts? Or how about trusting the experts on the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster? Do you trust the experts doctors that make blunders in the NHS? Or how about the experts that built the Millennium Dome or any number of other national projects that went over budget?

Experts get things right the vast majority of the time, but they get things wrong too. All the examples above are where they got things wrong the wrong way, i.e bad things happened. But how many decisions get taken that may be wrong, but because no bad thing happened you never hear of it again. There is still a loss though in these cases because it creates inefficiency.

again your argument is nonsense, unless you can show me qualificatons that place you in a position to critical evaluate and scrutinise the data and modelling used to determine the Hinkley Point B should not be closed you are basically building a strawman big enough that you could burn it to keep you warm for the next 10 winters................ I am sure you will try and weasel in the last word as you can't help yourself, but at this point I am not going to engage you anymore because it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Did you trust the experts to have a solid national energy strategy too? Or did you trust the experts to have undertaken all the right flood defenses around Tewkesbury in 2007? Or did you trust the experts to have run Covid loans properly or PPE contracts? Or how about trusting the experts on the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster? Do you trust the experts doctors that make blunders in the NHS? Or how about the experts that built the Millennium Dome or any number of other national projects that went over budget?

Experts get things right the vast majority of the time, but they get things wrong too. All the examples above are where they got things wrong the wrong way, i.e bad things happened. But how many decisions get taken that may be wrong, but because no bad thing happened you never hear of it again. There is still a loss though in these cases because it creates inefficiency.
Perhaps in 3 months time if they'd carried on producing energy from this power plant you could add the meltdown incident that occurred to your list. Stop waffling out pointless nonsense!
 
again your argument is nonsense, unless you can show me qualificatons that place you in a position to critical evaluate and scrutinise the data and modelling used to determine the Hinkley Point B should not be closed you are basically building a strawman big enough that you could burn it to keep you warm for the next 10 winters................ I am sure you will try and weasel in the last word as you can't help yourself, but at this point I am not going to engage you anymore because it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
Ok well I wont stress the argument further, and not because I want the last word but because its relevant - if we follow your way of thinking you can never have an opinion on anything that you aren't qualified in can you. Next time you express an opinion on something I'll remember to check what qualifications you have.
 
Is there a predicted unit price and predicted standing charge come October?
Trying to work out what I’ll go up by as I’ve been fixed since September but due to run out in September.
Looks like my bill will go from £1055 a year to £1726 with current capped prices. Safe to assume another 40% on that?
65-70% more likely maybe as much as 80%
 
Shareholders and the fat cat bosses won't be going cold and hungry this winter
most of them dont live in UK. Pensioners own a ton of this stuff, big oil is part FTSE index which almost all pensions keep. Most of the companies business is done abroad because UK isnt part of OPEC its a minnow in a sharkpool, USA could join if they wanted and be one of the largest members
 
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Did you trust the experts to have a solid national energy strategy too? Or did you trust the experts to have undertaken all the right flood defenses around Tewkesbury in 2007? Or did you trust the experts to have run Covid loans properly or PPE contracts? Or how about trusting the experts on the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster? Do you trust the experts doctors that make blunders in the NHS? Or how about the experts that built the Millennium Dome or any number of other national projects that went over budget?

Experts get things right the vast majority of the time, but they get things wrong too. All the examples above are where they got things wrong the wrong way, i.e bad things happened. But how many decisions get taken that may be wrong, but because no bad thing happened you never hear of it again. There is still a loss though in these cases because it creates inefficiency.
Oddly enough all of those examples you've made were decisions not made by experts but Politicians...Experts supply information and advice, but politicians make the decisions and provide the money in all those cases.

Experts have been saying our energy policy was bad for 30 years, and saying we needed more generating capacity and that nuclear was the only real option* if we didn't want fossil fuels, Politicians didn't want to pay for it**, or upset the nimby's even in areas where there was already an old nuclear plant that they were used to (and quite happy to take the money that was spent by the operators and staff at the plant in the local economy).

Experts have been warning about the flood risks and telling planning officials "this is a bad idea" about building on flood plains for decades, the planning officials when they do listen to the experts have tended to be overruled by the politicians...around my way the local planning officials listened to pretty much every utility and civil expert and refused planning permission to a large housing estate, only to be overruled by some twit in the government (often senior, often with no understanding about what they're actually doing as they don't even look at the evidence from the experts).

The Covid loans and PPE again were political decisions not experts, the government ignored the usual procurement process to basically throw money at donors who they knew, whilst the experts and experienced buyers and sellers couldn't get a call back, whilst the loans were done ignoring all of the normal safeguards including ones that would have just required a check against say HMRC and companies house....

It's odd how all your examples were basically experts not being listened to, or only a small number of optimistic predictions being listened to, rather then the larger number of less optimistic ones because it was politically better at the time..
It's also worth noting that for some of the flooding etc it's not that the experts were completely wrong, but that they underestimated the risk or other variables have changed, for example (and this is very important in the nuclear industry) they looked at what they thought was a 1 in 500 year risk and considered it not too bad, and then someone goes and builds upstream changing the risk level or you get a storm that's worse than has been seen along that stretch of river since proper records began and they find that they'd been overly optimistic (or that it turns out some old data was wrong).


*If you did some looking you'd see articles stating this from people in the industry and even some politicians going back to the 90's.

**For example they didn't want to guarantee a wholesale price of X in ten years time, when the price at the time was something like half that, completely ignoring the fact that there was a thing called inflation and much of our reliable generating capacity was due to shut down in the next few years...
 
s there a predicted unit price and predicted standing charge come October?
Trying to work out what I’ll go up by as I’ve been fixed since September but due to run out in September.
Looks like my bill will go from £1055 a year to £1726 with current capped prices. Safe to assume another 40% on that?

yes I don't understand why the customer champion doesn't get those figures up rather than the abstract table, this is an example of experts intentionally obfusacating data,
they/CI just chuck out new figures without explaining modifications from previous estimates.


price-cap-bbc.png



versus Hinkley experts where ... we are not sure we could guarantee to put the moderators into the reactor core if their was an earthquake, I can accept that as closure point.
 
Is there a predicted unit price and predicted standing charge come October?
Trying to work out what I’ll go up by as I’ve been fixed since September but due to run out in September.
Looks like my bill will go from £1055 a year to £1726 with current capped prices. Safe to assume another 40% on that?

Am I missing something? I thought the October rate was already set and there is another rise to come in January that is unknown?
 
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