Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[mattyfez]

true, but debt turns to loss if the company has primarily debtors on its books that have no hope of ever paying it back in the short to mid term, they can send the debt collection agencies around but if there is no money then there is no money. Lets be honest the average person on min wage or on average or below average wage / state pension is not going to be able to fork out north of 4K for energy, and the prices based on the futures index aren't going down anytime soon for at least the next 18 months. So any company with a small market cap and insufficient liquidity to keep operating while waiting for that stabilisation when people can actually start paying down the debt is basically staring down the barrel of going under.

EDF will likely be OK as their market cap is tens of billions and they are basically getting taken back into national ownership in France. Same of EON they have a large enough market cap. Some of the smaller players that only just survived the first round will probably die by the time we get into Jan / Feb next year unless the treasury hands out billions to them. I don't see how this ends well for anyone gas/oil extractors.

Octopus might not see the winter out if over half of their 3 million customers can't afford to pay the full wack.

Government is sleep wlaking into another disaster while they are consumed with who can give the most Thatcher like performance to the coffin dodger members who are voting the next leader.

This is a real worry, we have a zombie government with no acting PM, unless you class that fat testicle boris as a PM, and at the same time we have the worst economic crisis since world war 2... what could possibly go wrong?

 

[wildman]

Octopus is usually one of the top ones for EV owners so I wonder if that means they’re customer base is a little different from other suppliers. Knowing the debt each supplier has could help spot the ones that are vulnerable.

that is true, but also Octopus have willingly and knowingly allowed fraud on a massive scale where they have allowed people onto their books to get a cheap rate by "pretending" they are EV owners. If this demographic makes up a significant portion of their customer base and they hit rocky ground when the cap goes up in oct and then again in jan, then Octopus are going to be deep fried.

 

[regulus]

Reports from the UK not sounding good reading this thread.

And here we are considering moving back to the UK in the next year or two. Perhaps we should reconsider that for the moment.

 

[delta0]

that is true, but also Octopus have willingly and knowingly allowed fraud on a massive scale where they have allowed people onto their books to get a cheap rate by "pretending" they are EV owners. If this demographic makes up a significant portion of their customer base and they hit rocky ground when the cap goes up in oct and then again in jan, then Octopus are going to be deep fried.

This seems like a rogue event. They were quite thorough at checking I had an EV.

 

[delta0]

Reports from the UK not sounding good reading this thread.

And here we are considering moving back to the UK in the next year or two. Perhaps we should reconsider that for the moment.

Europe is in a much worse situation. Facing the prospect of no gas. NZ prices for electric must have gone through the roof too?

 

[413x]

true, but debt turns to loss if the company has primarily debtors on its books that have no hope of ever paying it back in the short to mid term, they can send the debt collection agencies around but if there is no money then there is no money. Lets be honest the average person on min wage or on average or below average wage / state pension is not going to be able to fork out north of 4K for energy, and the prices based on the futures index aren't going down anytime soon for at least the next 18 months. So any company with a small market cap and insufficient liquidity to keep operating while waiting for that stabilisation when people can actually start paying down the debt is basically staring down the barrel of going under.

EDF will likely be OK as their market cap is tens of billions and they are basically getting taken back into national ownership in France. Same of EON they have a large enough market cap. Some of the smaller players that only just survived the first round will probably die by the time we get into Jan / Feb next year unless the treasury hands out billions to them. I don't see how this ends well for anyone gas/oil extractors.

Octopus might not see the winter out if over half of their 3 million customers can't afford to pay the full wack.

Government is sleep wlaking into another disaster while they are consumed with who can give the most Thatcher like performance to the coffin dodger members who are voting the next leader.

Iberdrola (Scottish Power) is big too. On scale of Eon and EDF

Centrica is actually fairly small. UK only?

SSE is OVO and in the middle.

Octopus is private. No idea how vulnerable they are.

 

[mattyfez]

British gas just sent me an estimated bill for about 270 cubic meters of gas lol!

And they wonder why I refuse to sign up with a direct debit deal, PMSL

 

[delta0]

Iberdrola (Scottish Power) is big too. On scale of Eon and EDF

Centrica is actually fairly small. UK only?

SSE is OVO and in the middle.

Octopus is private. No idea how vulnerable they are.

Octopus also own £3.4bn of assets from their investments into energy production. It also looks like they developed a platform for customer management that they license to EON and NPower (subsidiary of EON). EDF are migrating to it next year.

 

[antijoke]

Ref. Smart plugs etc, is it safe to put a smart plug on the end of 5 socket extension lead so on the way out in the day I can turn off TVs/routers etc or is that a no no

 

[the shadow]

Ref. Smart plugs etc, is it safe to put a smart plug on the end of 5 socket extension lead so on the way out in the day I can turn off TVs/routers etc or is that a no no

Do this safely ensure that you remain within the limits of the wattage the smart plug

 

[Nemiyen]

Ref. Smart plugs etc, is it safe to put a smart plug on the end of 5 socket extension lead so on the way out in the day I can turn off TVs/routers etc or is that a no no

As long as you get a decent 13a smart plug (not a cheapo one from alibaba etc) then this should be as safe as a normal socket / extension. Don't overload it etc and it should work fine.

I've got exactly the same setup going and it will save me about £8.50 per month by switching everything off during the night and while we are out during the day.

 

[danlightbulb]

got exactly the same setup going and it will save me about £8.50 per month by switching everything off during the night and while we are out during the day.

It's something I'm looking at too, but if you use a smart plug to turn your WiFi off how do you switch it back on again (apart from manually).

 

[Greebo]

For anyone retired it’s probably no more expensive to go to Spain or the Canary Islands for 3-4 months over Winter. Defo be a more comfortable style of life out there.

People have been doing that for decades. I remember documentaries about pensioners going to cheap hotels for the whole of winter in spain as the cost of it was cheaper than staying in the Uk and heating their house and cooking etc.

Plus much milder temps so nicer when you are older.

 

[McPhee]

How do you work out the mpg of a plug in hybrid? Is it purely the fuel used or some sort of calculation to take into account the electricity usage too?

Hybrid, not plug-in hybrid.

Just simply a matter of working out the cost per mile for the petrol hybrid, then multiplying by the efficiency (miles per kWh) figure for the EV (after taking losses between meter and battery of about 10% into account). That gives you the break-even point in pence per kWh.

For my ageing Leaf, the break-even point is likely around 36p-38p, meaning even with my 12m fix, an Ioniq Hybrid wouldn't cost much more to run. OTOH, petrol prices might rocket again. And the Ioniq is one of the most efficient cars on the road, so it's close to a "best case scenario".

 

[SDK^]

Here's a barmy reality; come October, it's likely to be cheaper to run an efficient petrol hybrid than an EV.

Take the Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid as an example. Honest John's Real MPG average is 68 miles per gallon. At £1.80 per litre, that's 12p per mile.

Now consider its EV iteration. Maybe 4 miles per kWh in winter after accounting for losses. So the break-even point is 48p per kWh!

If we're looking at 55p per kWh or more, petrol prices could be pushing £2/litre and running costs would be broadly similar.

Most people with an EV who can charge at home are on a tarrif which provides cheap off-peak rates.
For me, I get 4 hours at 7.5p, which means about 2p per mile.

 

[McPhee]

Most people with an EV who can charge at home are on a tarrif which provides cheap off-peak rates.
For me, I get 4 hours at 7.5p, which means about 2p per mile.

I'll admit, I'd forgotten to factor that in. I'm limited to 3-pin charging right now, so Go is fairly irrelevant to me personally When I had my smart meter installed in June it would have saved me around 40p per full charge, but with a day unit rate that was ~12.5p more expensive.

 

[Sinbad2000]

This is a real worry, we have a zombie government with no acting PM, unless you class that fat testicle boris as a PM, and at the same time we have the worst economic crisis since world war 2... what could possibly go wrong?

That's offensive. Testicles have uses!

 

[gailjon]

Most people with an EV who can charge at home are on a tarrif which provides cheap off-peak rates.
For me, I get 4 hours at 7.5p, which means about 2p per mile.

Same here. 4 hours at 7.5p. That gets us (according to app) 29 kwh for £1.45.

 

[MadMossy]

Damn wholesale prices just keep rising, we are days away from breaching 400p/therm, EU wholesale prices are days away from surpassing their previous all time high as well. Not looking good for October at all.

 

[delta0]

Most people with an EV who can charge at home are on a tarrif which provides cheap off-peak rates.
For me, I get 4 hours at 7.5p, which means about 2p per mile.

Same. I’m running at 2p/mile