Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Devilman]

So why the fixed tariffs if the greedy power companies knew they would be selling at a loss?

Because the constant use of a "just in time" model with barely any storage capacity what-so-ever has left us in a situation that was extremely vulnerable to outside influence, such as say... An invasion of Ukraine which has affected global gas supply?

While the power companies may not have been able to predict that Russia would invade Ukraine and disrupt gas supply, The government(s) were more than well informed and capable of predicting our diminishing generation capacity as our aging nuclear plants went offline one by one and we decommissioned all our coal plants and have sat on their hands and done very little of anything to address that for more than a decade now.

 

[n111ck]

Because the constant use of a "just in time" model with barely any storage capacity what-so-ever has left us in a situation that was extremely vulnerable to outside influence, such as say... An invasion of Ukraine which has affected global gas supply?

While the power companies may not have been able to predict that Russia would invade Ukraine and disrupt gas supply, The government(s) were more than well informed and capable of predicting our diminishing generation capacity as our aging nuclear plants went offline one by one and we decommissioned all our coal plants and have sat on their hands and done very little of anything to address that for more than a decade now.

Sounds like hindsight to me particularly when the country doesn't have unlimited resources and choices have to be made.

Still doesnt explain why the power companies proceeded as they did if it was all so obvious.

 

[200sols]

So why the fixed tariffs if the greedy power companies knew they would be selling at a loss?

They buy that gas in advance based on how many customers they have so they can sell to you at a guaranteed price for a fixed period. Its not a conpsiracy.

 

[n111ck]

They buy that gas in advance based on how many customers they have so they can sell to you at a guaranteed price for a fixed period. Its not a conpsiracy.

Yes but if the current situation was so easy to predict why didn't they factor that in to their pricing?

 

[HungryHippos]

The Tory vs Labour debate and "why didn't gov foresee this and build stuff ages ago" argument isn't all that productive here, we can't wind back time, so the more interesting conversation here is around what can be done here and now.

To lower prices, you would need to increase supply or reduce demand, or some combination of the two.

Reducing demand may be a slightly self-fulfilling entity as the costs will be so high that some people will be forced to lower demand.

Increasing supply, I guess if we look at different component parts, and what is possible:

Green energy

• More wind generation should be spun up where it makes the most sense.
• It seems solar installers are flat out, and parts are harder to get hold of. I am not sure that we can step up solar enough to really bite into the demand that much short term.

Coal

• It's environmentally unfriendly, and we don't mine it anymore. If we had stocks of it do we have the capacity to burn to increase generation?
• Are we reaching a point with gas prices per therm where buying in coal could cover some of the short-fall and have a similar cost?

Nuclear

• We all know we need more of it, but I'm assuming these take time to make.
• How quickly could we get more Nuclear generation spun up if we reinvigorated old plans to add more?

It's fairly clear the war will rage on for longer, at least another 6 months but we have to prepare for the war going even further beyond that.

 

[Werewolf]

Sounds like hindsight to me particularly when the country doesn't have unlimited resources and choices have to be made.

Still doesnt explain why the power companies proceeded as they did if it was all so obvious.

We KNEW the power stations were shutting down.

We KNEW that demand wasn't dropping but was going up.

Now, I'm no genius with a PPE from oxford and a degree on gibberish, but I can see that one of the key things any countries government is meant to do, is make sure that the basics are there for it's population, and even if it doesn't care about it's population as individuals, then them as workers, and for the companies. Now I may be very, very misinformed, but one of the really key things a country needs to operate in this day and age is power.

Now again I may be wrong, but it never occurred to me that when looking at a graph that shows one line (supply) going down and projected to go down with hard data points (say the closing of the power stations) and another couple of lines that showed current energy usage and projected energy usages, it would be really, bidgly difficult to understand that as your Supply goes down and starts to drop below your demands, bad things happen...

We learned the lesson of relying on one fuel source too much back in the 60's and 70's, then promptly forgotten or more likely, ignored it for party political reasons in the 90's.

My father, who lived through the 4 day week, and was car sharing during the oil crisis could see this coming and he didn't even go to university, just a half decent grammar school, and he didn't have the sort of reports that the government gets, just the fact that he could see the news of power stations being shut down (often with comments like "that was a sight in person", "we used to drive past it on the way to your aunt when your mum and i were just married" or "I remember what it used to be called" and "I went there with your uncle on a tour, i've got a pen somewhere" ) and no news of replacements.

 

[Zenduri]

Yes but if the current situation was so easy to predict why didn't they factor that in to their pricing?

Yes we could predict Russia would invade the Ukraine, cut off european gas supplies and drive prices up.....

However 40 years of trash government from both sides has failed to plan and build proper infrastructure for our supply and generation. That could be planned for.

 

[alec]

Yes we could predict Russia would invade the Ukraine, cut off european gas supplies and drive prices up.....

If you recall the gas prices increase started 6-9 months before Ukraine events.
And this came from a reform in european gas market, moving away from long term contract to gas spot market. Which basically gave gas suppliers an incentive to reduce supply and drive prices up. THIS could have been predicted before introduction.

 

[eddyr]

Sounds like hindsight to me particularly when the country doesn't have unlimited resources and choices have to be made.

Still doesnt explain why the power companies proceeded as they did if it was all so obvious.

You make it sound as though taking sensible approaches to setting energy policy, and strategic planning for long term energy security is impossible.
And feigning (I assume) to not comprehend the differences in purpose, responsibilities and objectives between 2 distinct entities such as government and energy companies is, well, odd.

 

[200sols]

Yes but if the current situation was so easy to predict why didn't they factor that in to their pricing?

The energy companies have many tools at their disposal but I don't think a crystal ball is one of them.

 

[danlightbulb]

The Tory vs Labour debate and "why didn't gov foresee this and build stuff ages ago" argument isn't all that productive here, we can't wind back time, so the more interesting conversation here is around what can be done here and now.

To lower prices, you would need to increase supply or reduce demand, or some combination of the two.

Reducing demand may be a slightly self-fulfilling entity as the costs will be so high that some people will be forced to lower demand.

Increasing supply, I guess if we look at different component parts, and what is possible:

Green energy

• More wind generation should be spun up where it makes the most sense.
• It seems solar installers are flat out, and parts are harder to get hold of. I am not sure that we can step up solar enough to really bite into the demand that much short term.

Coal

• It's environmentally unfriendly, and we don't mine it anymore. If we had stocks of it do we have the capacity to burn to increase generation?
• Are we reaching a point with gas prices per therm where buying in coal could cover some of the short-fall and have a similar cost?

Nuclear

• We all know we need more of it, but I'm assuming these take time to make.
• How quickly could we get more Nuclear generation spun up if we reinvigorated old plans to add more?

It's fairly clear the war will rage on for longer, at least another 6 months but we have to prepare for the war going even further beyond that.

You've missed out the option to properly cap prices, as in a temporary nationalisation of our own supply output.

Fracking sites.

More north sea oil.

 

[Hagar]

Most coal power stations can be run on wood pellets it seems. Although imported from North America it is not cheap. Drax is still available.
British coal was used extensively in power stations and industry. Some if it like Welsh coal was very high grade.

 

[phill9800]

This thread I've been looking over for the last few days and I was just wondering, how of how many people reply in the thread, how many have solar panels on their own home at the moment?

I just thought I'd ask as I was interested purely to find out if the people with solar have noticed a drop or increase in their bills...

 

[Diddums]

If you cant debate anything without getting personal it suggests youre the one getting triggered

your pathetic leftie spin

Youre clearly a shamed Corbynista back tracking.

what a contemptuous moron you are.

I can still hear you sobbing

what a gullible fool you are.

 

[LabR@t]

This thread I've been looking over for the last few days and I was just wondering, how of how many people reply in the thread, how many have solar panels on their own home at the moment?

I just thought I'd ask as I was interested purely to find out if the people with solar have noticed a drop or increase in their bills...

if i had the cash spare I might consider it, the roi is still many many years.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

This thread I've been looking over for the last few days and I was just wondering, how of how many people reply in the thread, how many have solar panels on their own home at the moment?

I just thought I'd ask as I was interested purely to find out if the people with solar have noticed a drop or increase in their bills...

I have solar and yes, my bills are lower as a result. It's also the only feasible way I can run AC on full all day in weather like this.

 

[HungryHippos]

You've missed out the option to properly cap prices, as in a temporary nationalisation of our own supply output.

Fracking sites.

More north sea oil.

Capping prices doesn't really reduce demand or increase supply though, it's not something that helps bring market rates back into focus. Though I don't think the idea should be discounted totally as a tool that can tackle the crisis, the money to pay for the power needs to come from somewhere with a proper plan.

Fracking and North Sea oil would be worth consideration in the mix yes.

Most coal power stations can be run on wood pellets it seems. Although imported from North America it is not cheap. Drax is still available.
British coal was used extensively in power stations and industry. Some if it like Welsh coal was very high grade.

At some point it may become cheaper than gas per therm, interested to know if such a thing was feasible.

This thread I've been looking over for the last few days and I was just wondering, how of how many people reply in the thread, how many have solar panels on their own home at the moment?

I just thought I'd ask as I was interested purely to find out if the people with solar have noticed a drop or increase in their bills...

Solar is 100% going to lower your bills, but whether it makes sense for you is something you'd need to work out.

Additionally bigger upfront cost, payback will be measured in years, but it's green energy and eventually it will pay for itself and provide you with clean energy for free.

I am getting solar later this month, already booked.

 

[n111ck]

Explanation already provided - you need to read all the posts before flicking through your collection of ‘priceless’ memes. For everyones sake.. but thanks for trying..

 

[Diddums]

Explanation already provided - you need to read all the posts before flicking through your collection of ‘priceless’ memes. For everyones sake.. but thanks for trying..

No explanation on the face of the earth is capable of digging you out of the hole you dug yourself.

I'll be honest though, it's made for a great Friday afternoon chuckle

 

[_Jimlad_]

Solar you need to make sure you have a big enough roof that gets a enough sun all day long, and your not planning on moving for 10 years.

Without grants it's a massive outlay that will pay back over time, but I suspect grants will come back at some point.