Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Sinbad2000]

Yeah these are expensive.
I have some for non trv rooms.

One in the bathroom with the heated towel rail. And one in the hallway where the radiator doesn't have a trv (as usually one radiator doesn't have one for safety)

One could probably go in the kitchen tbh as it's a big room

Just placed an order Wired started kit + 2nd wired thermostat + 2 TRVs to get started with ... will grow it from there.

 

[rG-tom]

A cap would need to be in place for (at least) a couple of years, not a few months. It's going to take time for the Ukraine crisis to be resolved, or for Europe to wean itself off Russian gas.

Could always fund that through increasing general taxation on higher earners, going some way toward offsetting the "helping people who don't need it" problem. Riffing on an idea from yesterday, I wonder how much money could be raised if the personal allowance started to fall at £80k rather than £100k, hitting £0 at £100k instead of £125k? That would target the top 5% of earners with up to £2.5k of extra tax.

you're joking, right? Due to inflation that cap has already massively lowered, £100k now is the equivalent of what £70k was in 2010 when the tapering was introduced.

 

[Doobedoo]

you're joking, right? Due to inflation that cap has already massively lowered, £100k now is the equivalent of what £70k was in 2010 when the tapering was introduced.

It’s same effect on everyone else too.

 

[413x]

Just placed an order Wired started kit + 2nd wired thermostat + 2 TRVs to get started with ... will grow it from there.

If you have a combi boiler that's all you need. (I have an old tank system so got the hot water control one)

 

[McPhee]

you're joking, right? Due to inflation that cap has already massively lowered, £100k now is the equivalent of what £70k was in 2010 when the tapering was introduced.

As a temporary measure toward funding a fuel cap? Absolutely not joking. £80k is roughly the 95th percentile of PAYE earners. For many, the bulk of the (up to) £2.5k is merely going to be offsetting the savings they're making from the cap anyway

 

[arknor]

You don't wash your clothes very often so it probably does.

I change my clothes every day but only wash them once a week.....

if it smelled or didn't feel fresh I would change it

 

[rG-tom]

As a temporary measure toward funding a fuel cap? Absolutely not joking. £80k is roughly the 95th percentile of PAYE earners. For many, the bulk of the (up to) £2.5k is merely going to be offsetting the savings they're making from the cap anyway

It's amazing that the press have managed to convince "normal" people think that the people earning 80-100k are the ones that need taxing more, there are a huge number of people in that pay band who are far from living lavishly especially if they're single income with families and are in the south east/London.

I agree that taxation on the rich is an something that could be leveraged, but people earning 80-100k are much closer to the average person than they are to rich people. The 60% punitive tax is already at far too low a point, raise tax for people earning 500k+ / multinational companies / multibillionaires with huge asset portfolios, not people in professional jobs working long hours to provide for their families.

 

[ci_newman]

It's amazing that the press have managed to convince "normal" people think that the people earning 80-100k are the ones that need taxing more, there are a huge number of people in that pay band who are far from living lavishly especially if they're single income with families and are in the south east/London.

I agree that taxation on the rich is an something that could be leveraged, but people earning 80-100k are much closer to the average person than they are to rich people. The 60% punitive tax is already at far too low a point, raise tax for people earning 500k+ / multinational companies / multibillionaires with huge asset portfolios, not people in professional jobs working long hours to provide for their families.

My biggest suspicion is that people don't realise how penalising the high-rate tax charge is already for those earning £50k - £100k and how much it affects your take home pay. Especially for families with children and the HICBC

The average salary in England is £39,452 (ONS) which is a takehome each month of approx £2433.09 with a 5% pension contribution

For someone earning £80,000 per year, despite having a salary "twice" that of the national average, the takehome each month is approx £4361.38 with a 5% pension contribution - far from "twice" what someone takes home who earns the average.

Taxing the middle isn't the solution here, tax the businesses.

 

[XeNoNF50]

It's amazing that the press have managed to convince "normal" people think that the people earning 80-100k are the ones that need taxing more, there are a huge number of people in that pay band who are far from living lavishly especially if they're single income with families and are in the south east/London.

I agree that taxation on the rich is an something that could be leveraged, but people earning 80-100k are much closer to the average person than they are to rich people. The 60% punitive tax is already at far too low a point, raise tax for people earning 500k+ / multinational companies / multibillionaires with huge asset portfolios, not people in professional jobs working long hours to provide for their families.

Yeah a single income family living in a commuter town to London on £80k wouldn't go far. Just increases in energy bills and mortgage rates / payments on an average family home could see that family having to shell out a further 25% of their take home pay. That could easily be the majority of their disposable income.

 

[CapitalOne]

It's amazing that the press have managed to convince "normal" people think that the people earning 80-100k are the ones that need taxing more, there are a huge number of people in that pay band who are far from living lavishly especially if they're single income with families and are in the south east/London.

I agree that taxation on the rich is an something that could be leveraged, but people earning 80-100k are much closer to the average person than they are to rich people. The 60% punitive tax is already at far too low a point, raise tax for people earning 500k+ / multinational companies / multibillionaires with huge asset portfolios, not people in professional jobs working long hours to provide for their families.

If I was being cynical, that would be to turn those people into the "bogeyman" or "ultra-rich" to distract from the genuine ultra-rich. However fortunately the current press/government would never stoop that low

 

[bigmike20vt]

Yeah a single income family living in a commuter town to London on £80k wouldn't go far. Just increases in energy bills and mortgage rates / payments on an average family home could see that family having to shell out a further 25% of their take home pay. That could easily be the majority of their disposable income.

indeed...... i think now adays unless you have a really good job, or live in a very cheap area the notion of only having 1 bread winner in a home and 1 stay at home house keeper / child guardian are over.

Once kids get to school age it is much more affordable to pay for before or after school clubs and both have jobs. I am not making a judgement on rights or wrongs, it just is. My friend earns over 80k, its a well paid job in most peoples books, but his wife barely earns anything as she wants to be full time mum (she is teaching assistant so works 3 days a week in term time)..... fair enough.

however both my wife and i work and both earn under half than him individually... but even after our child care fees we are not much worse off than them tbh. (after school club is around £7 a day which we use 3 days a week, holiday club in school hols is pricy but its a good one and the lad loves it, that is around £30 a day.... school hols suck!.) unfortunately my parents are 200 miles away and the other halves help out the odd day in school hols but that is all they can manage - they are over an hr away as well - again fair enough, it was our choice to have a child.

I wont lie. i do sometimes get a little jealous when work mates have free on tap child care from their family to have social lives and free holiday clubs, but we benefit in other ways.

 

[ci_newman]

Yeah a single income family living in a commuter town to London on £80k wouldn't go far. Just increases in energy bills and mortgage rates / payments on an average family home could see that family having to shell out a further 25% of their take home pay. That could easily be the majority of their disposable income.

Based on my projections above, £80k salary is a takehome of £4400. Some simple monthly costs:

Mortgage - £1900 (based on a max mortgage of 4.5x£80k with interest rate of 4%)
Council tax - £300
Energy costs - £400

That's £2600 spent before you're even considering other utilities, commuting costs (car, train, w/e) groceries, insurance. My grocery costs alone for a family of 4 is ~ £200/week

(for the record, I earn significantly lower than £80k too)

 

[AndrewNR]

My biggest suspicion is that people don't realise how penalising the high-rate tax charge is already for those earning £50k - £100k and how much it affects your take home pay. Especially for families with children and the HICBC

The average salary in England is £39,452 (ONS) which is a takehome each month of approx £2433.09 with a 5% pension contribution

For someone earning £80,000 per year, despite having a salary "twice" that of the national average, the takehome each month is approx £4361.38 with a 5% pension contribution - far from "twice" what someone takes home who earns the average.

Taxing the middle isn't the solution here, tax the businesses.

£500 isn't a massive penalty considering really, is it? It's still £2k per month more and a can of baked beans is the same price no matter what you earn.
Even having a slightly bigger house and a nicer car etc they will have less money 'issues' and more disposable/saveable income.

 

[413x]

If you have an average home 80 k is a lot.

If. You have a far above average home it's hard to have much sympathy for someone earning 80k.

That house is also building massive equity
If your mortgage is 1900 that's an expensive house!

 

[glenimp617]

I try and set a weekly shopping budget of £125 (family of 4), so doing well I think. There is the odd midweek trip to the local co-op.

 

[ci_newman]

If you have an average home 80 k is a lot.

If. You have a far above average home it's hard to have much sympathy for someone earning 80k.

That house is also building massive equity
If your mortgage is 1900 that's an expensive house!

On the mortgage payments, not at all.

Thats a mortgage of £360k at 4% (current variable rate), thats not going to buy you much in the South East or London commuter towns.

Regardless, all I was highlighting is that its not all roses and sunshines for a single-earner household with kids on £80k depending on where you live in the country

 

[rG-tom]

If you have an average home 80 k is a lot.

If. You have a far above average home it's hard to have much sympathy for someone earning 80k.

That house is also building massive equity
If your mortgage is 1900 that's an expensive house!

"Average" by what measure? 1900 mortgage is not buying a mansion in a London commuter town...

 

[bigmike20vt]

If you have an average home 80 k is a lot.

If. You have a far above average home it's hard to have much sympathy for someone earning 80k.

That house is also building massive equity
If your mortgage is 1900 that's an expensive house!

its a difficult one and i dont have the answer... as it is london get so much government support compared to the rest of the country, and when you hear comments such as Rishi's recent ones it makes me sick. Rather than building HS2 to get MORE people into london it would be much better to encourage high profit business elswhere... but i digress.

my actual point is, if you live around london - and for some this is a necessity not a choice, 300k wont get you much of a home. OTOH if you live in hull 300K will get you a wacking huge pad.

i can definitely see how someone near london could struggle with a family with single earner on 80k, whilst at the other extreme see how that may be offensive to someone living elsewhere.

the obvious answer would be to have weighted allowances, but i would have to trust the people in power not to use that as yet another stick to hit dreprived regions with whilst yet again lining pockets of afluent areas.

i live near Cambridge and am somewhat caught in the middle. our house prices are high (not quite london high and i live in the cheapest area within 20 miles of my job) but still high, but at the same time get no london salary bonuses etc.

about the only advantage (cost of living wise) to living up north is that it is much easier to live off the state up north... but that is hardly a ringing endorsement.

of course IF you can get a good job up north - and they do exist - you are laughing, its just much harder, I tried for over a year. My ex wife suggested i quit my research scientist job and become a fish packer on hull docks on minimum wage so she could go back home - i kid you not, it was the only job i could get...................................

back on topic .... heating costs are gonna be a lot higher up north too in winter. North east gets proper chilly. newcastle is absolutely baltic in winter.

 

[200sols]

If you have an average home 80 k is a lot.

If. You have a far above average home it's hard to have much sympathy for someone earning 80k.

That house is also building massive equity
If your mortgage is 1900 that's an expensive house!

Average means different things in different areas. Just a guess but an 'average house' where I live probably costs double an average house where you live.

 

[scarps]

Know your actual yearly Usage (in kWh) that is the best predicted forecast

We are hoping it will be a lot lower than last year (the usage, not the bill )as we have tried to be really careful what we are using, some days we have got it down to 4.62kWh a day and the past 2 months it hasn't gone above 9.50kWh a a day. Currently we used 60kWh less in June and 65kWh in July compared to last year.

Obviously winter will change but on the Octopus forecast if we keep paying £120 a month we will be £1200 in debt buy June. They reckon we will use £320 in January when last year it was £109.

This is currently at 27 kWh variable, all electric, no gas.

Bit of a joke really.