Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

danlightbulb said:
Wow those things are going to be crippling. Surely unnecessary in this country, why would you stand having a heat source in your kitchen on all day during the summer?
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It would certainly be interesting to know how efficient/inefficient they are.
A modern oven is pretty efficient when up to temp, but even so they still use a fair bit, and thats before you start getting issues with door seals for example

I wouldn't want say a base 200w being added to house heat for no benefit thats for sure!
 
Interesting as we discussed the potential of trying to persuade people to move from peak consumption times to off peak. Quite significant numbers being discussed, just goes to show how much those extra units must be costing at peak for this to be considered

www.bbc.co.uk

Discounts for cutting peak-time electricity use too low, energy firms say

Two UK energy firms say a plan to offer discounts on bills could fail if people are not offered more.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Interesting as we discussed the potential of trying to persuade people to move from peak consumption times to off peak. Quite significant numbers being discussed, just goes to show how much those extra units must be costing at peak for this to be considered

www.bbc.co.uk

Discounts for cutting peak-time electricity use too low, energy firms say

Two UK energy firms say a plan to offer discounts on bills could fail if people are not offered more.
www.bbc.co.uk
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I was just reading the same article myself. Even 52p/kWh would seem to be very promising to me. I wonder how they measure how much you 'save' though? How do you measure what someone doesn't use? Seems more sensible to just have tariffs which cost less at different times of day, rather than trying to refund people for what they haven't used.
 
danlightbulb said:
I was just reading the same article myself. Even 52p/kWh would seem to be very promising to me. I wonder how they measure how much you 'save' though? How do you measure what someone doesn't use? Seems more sensible to just have tariffs which cost less at different times of day, rather than trying to refund people for what they haven't used.
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In the test (the Octopus one) they took your average or something (last week iirc) and then based it on that.
That would be tricky at a larger level so maybe its actually a time when a simple cap applied to every bill would make more sense.
You need a smart meter of course.

Edit what I mean is, apply the credit to everyone on a smart meter using less than say 1kw per hour during the peak period. Measured each 30 minute period.
So if you less than 3kwh between 4pm-7pm you get a credit. Otherwise its a bit open to abuse.

I suspect you would need to really have anyone who wanted to do this on a fully variable tariff once it caught on.
 
rG-tom said:
jesus, there's only two of us and we average more like ~100kWh a week of gas in summer for only hob and heating hot water cylinder. you're somehow using the same as we use in 3 days in 30 days. I can't get my head around that.
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I know there are more savings to be had as well when I redo the kitchen I'll be running the hot water from the boiler in 8mm pipe rather than the current 15mm.
Should save a bit over time and improve the speed of the hot water.
The shower already runs in eco mode so low temp and low flow.
I always pre wash dishes in just cold water so one sink full of hot and soap is enough for a few days washing up.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
In the test (the Octopus one) they took your average or something (last week iirc) and then based it on that.
That would be tricky at a larger level so maybe its actually a time when a simple cap applied to every bill would make more sense.
You need a smart meter of course.
Click to expand...
It would get very confusing.

Lets say my daytime average last week was 100 kWh. Then this week I moved 50 kWh of that to overnight so I get paid an amount of money.

But then next week is my baseline still 100 kWH, or does my new average become 50 kWh. If the latter, then I need to move even more overnight to get paid any more, so returns will diminish. That method would incentivise me to use more in the day again, to reset my baseline again. Which is just bonkers really.

However if the baseline stays fixed, then I'd be incentivised to use as much as possible in week 1, to maximise the 'savings' in future weeks. That wouldn't work either.

We just need cheap off peak tariffs, that's it.
 
Greebo said:
Wow I feel good about ours then.

Our usage was on fixed so pre and post april the same, £64 per month all year round. post April thats going to be just under £200 per month so triple.
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We use less than 100kWh of gas during the summer months because all it does is hot water through the combi but in the winter that goes up significantly, the highest usage last winter was just over 2,000kWh in a month (that's 64 units on the [very old] meter).
 
danlightbulb said:
It would get very confusing.

Lets say my daytime average last week was 100 kWh. Then this week I moved 50 kWh of that to overnight so I get paid an amount of money.

But then next week is my baseline still 100 kWH, or does my new average become 50 kWh. If the latter, then I need to move even more overnight to get paid any more, so returns will diminish. That method would incentivise me to use more in the day again, to reset my baseline again. Which is just bonkers really.

However if the baseline stays fixed, then I'd be incentivised to use as much as possible in week 1, to maximise the 'savings' in future weeks. That wouldn't work either.

We just need cheap off peak tariffs, that's it.
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Yeah thats my point, its open to abuse for sure depending how its structured. Hell worst case it could end up being like that scheme in NI where people were using all they could to get the rebate.

IMO we have to move to 30 min variable pricing for everyone. Those most able and willing will move consumption which should along with V2H and V2G and home storage should really help to lower the peak demand.
People that will struggle to move usage from the current peaks should see lower bills as should everyone else. How can everyone win? Well the last generation units added to the grid are the most expensive, we eliminate them the average for every unit goes down.
 
danlightbulb said:
I was just reading the same article myself. Even 52p/kWh would seem to be very promising to me. I wonder how they measure how much you 'save' though? How do you measure what someone doesn't use? Seems more sensible to just have tariffs which cost less at different times of day, rather than trying to refund people for what they haven't used.
Click to expand...
that would be amazing...... i wonder if people who already push their energy from peak will get offered that? ie i have the means already (a battery). because it is no skin off my nose i make sure already that i am always on it on peak times....... but if i could get paid for it then even better.

so it just depends if they look at my previous few months use and then reward me with the energy saved (which would be zero as am curently using zero peak energy)

or if it is just taken on average like the yearly energy prices the government etc seem obsessed about talking about rather than actual kwh prices.

like you say timed tiered prices is so much more sensible, and it then means people who already do their bit voluntarily dont get shafted.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
It would certainly be interesting to know how efficient/inefficient they are.
A modern oven is pretty efficient when up to temp, but even so they still use a fair bit, and thats before you start getting issues with door seals for example

I wouldn't want say a base 200w being added to house heat for no benefit thats for sure!
Click to expand...
Blimey!!!



The Everhot 90 Plus
Two full size ovens with a powerful grill in the top oven. Approximately 600W heat output to the room (when at 'full' cooking temperature). Electric consumption: 100-115kWh per week.
 
LabR@t said:
Blimey!!!



The Everhot 90 Plus
Two full size ovens with a powerful grill in the top oven. Approximately 600W heat output to the room (when at 'full' cooking temperature). Electric consumption: 100-115kWh per week.
Click to expand...
that isnt a million miles off my entire electricity use for the week and i consider myself a reasonably high user
 
LabR@t said:
Blimey!!!



The Everhot 90 Plus
Two full size ovens with a powerful grill in the top oven. Approximately 600W heat output to the room (when at 'full' cooking temperature). Electric consumption: 100-115kWh per week.
Click to expand...

Jesus! Stacks though, 600w heat is around 100kwh a week so add some extra for actual cooking time and can see how typical could be 110-115!
 
Yes people should be more thoughtful when buying this stuff but i dont primarily blame people for buying this crap, i mean not everyone is clued in on things like energy use, esp if the sales people push them as being efficient.......... but the companies making them really should be bought to task.

even 12 months ago before everything went to the dogs, making such wasteful devices when there are so much better alternatives is just wrong imo.

(and i am not some radical tree hugger either....... I could and should probably do more, but i do like to get the most from my energy use and an oven like the above is the complete opposite of that)
 
bigmike20vt said:
Yes people should be more thoughtful when buying this stuff but i dont primarily blame people for buying this crap, i mean not everyone is clued in on things like energy use, esp if the sales people push them as being efficient.......... but the companies making them really should be bought to task.

even 12 months ago before everything went to the dogs, making such wasteful devices when there are so much better alternatives is just wrong imo.
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Surely the energy rating should be ZZZZ or something
Actually though, do ovens even have a rating on efficiency?
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Surely the energy rating should be ZZZZ or something
Actually though, do ovens even have a rating on efficiency?
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i have no idea to be honest...... ours is just a middle of the road fan oven. i dare not look now as no matter what it is we do not have the cash to replace it right now....... that said we dont use it that often, the air fryer is our work horse and we just use the big oven when we have to.

edit... no they dont which is probably how they get away with it.

www.energystar.gov

Microwaves, Ovens, and Ranges

There is no ENERGY STAR label for residential ovens, ranges, or microwave ovens at this time. However, there are ENERGY STAR labeled commercial ovens. Over 60 product categories have an ENERGY STAR label. Review the list of ENERGY STAR specifications in development.
www.energystar.gov www.energystar.gov
 
bigmike20vt said:
i have no idea to be honest...... ours is just a middle of the road fan oven. i dare not look now as no matter what it is we do not have the cash to replace it right now....... that said we dont use it that often, the air fryer is our work horse and we just use the big oven when we have to.

edit... no they dont which is probably how they get away with it.

www.energystar.gov

Microwaves, Ovens, and Ranges

There is no ENERGY STAR label for residential ovens, ranges, or microwave ovens at this time. However, there are ENERGY STAR labeled commercial ovens. Over 60 product categories have an ENERGY STAR label. Review the list of ENERGY STAR specifications in development.
www.energystar.gov www.energystar.gov
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It seems they do, but a quick looks shows them all to be A/A A/B or B/A so I assume even an inefficient leaky one (compatively) is basically on the normal level for the device.
Hard to make many savings I guess in reality to an oven drawing loads of juice for a relatively short period.

Edit, so i posted this after your edit.
AO for example have the above, maybe its voluntary

Quick look on Aga I couldnt see one (no surprise if they are that bad!)
 
@the shadow...... i think that is actually unfair on wealthy people.... in the grand scheme of things our family is very fortunate.. and whilst i have said before i am far from perfect but even so i like to think i do what i can and defintely like to make every kwh work as much as it can for me.

mind you my mrs does tell me i am tight! ;) (I like to think of it more as enjoying getting the most value out of stuff that i can )
 
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