Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Troop]

Like to know how they will implement the Out of peak usage payment, can't see them having a hope in hell of checking everyone's smart meter readings every day in that period.

I use nothing from the grid in that time period anyway.

 

[jpaul]

But the magic question is use less than what?

than what they usually use - earlier article

National Grid’s proposals follow a trial in conjunction with Octopus Energy. In the pilot about 100,000 customers were given a day’s notice to cut their consumption during peak times such as 4.30pm to 6.30pm, when demand is highest in the UK.

Octopus said that the average household saved 23p in each two-hour period, with some consumers saving as much as £4.35.

Sources close to the scheme said consumers had regularly followed the advice to cut their usage during the suggested periods. There had been concerns that National Grid would not be able to rely on consumers taking up the offer.

National Grid has asked other suppliers to assess how much customers could cut back on their usage at peak times.

 

[LabR@t]

Not sure why you putting it in caps, I didnt know about the test hence the question.

But the magic question is use less than what?

If they use your initial readings as a baseline then its got more holes than a net.

Just seems an over complex way to do TOU unit rates, we are agreeing with each other I think, 30 min readings, cheaper off peak.

Maybe use more now then reduce?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not sure why you putting it in caps, I didnt know about the test hence the question.

But the magic question is use less than what?

If they use your initial readings as a baseline then its got more holes than a net.

Just seems an over complex way to do TOU unit rates, we are agreeing with each other I think, 30 min readings, cheaper off peak.

I dunno, I haven't seen the output from the trial. I know they did it.
I think it was based on weekly units, so you used say 5 last week between 4pm and 8pm we will give you £0.3 for every unit you use less this week.
Maybe they found that the benefit needed to get people to switch was a lot higher than they could afford to discount elsewhere to achieve the same impact.

But yes the potential for abuse is there as ever with complicated schemes unless they iron out all the scams in advance.

I would prefer to wean everyone to variable pricing, over time.

It needs to be variable since it needs to reflect grid output. If its a windy and sunny day then generation from renewables will be high and unit costs should (once decoupled from gas) be very low.
Getting people to do the variable as much as possible during that time is whats needed.
Can't just have a static x time = y price just wont deliver the savings. It will help but its still assuming supply is constant at same price.
Equally if its low wind and low sun then trying to price as many to defer usage works well as well.

 

[Troop]

If I can remember when I was on the trial, it was from 3-4 weeks before as a date.

 

[Joeyuk]

Scottish Power are being a pain with my DD. I was eth mining for the last 18 months with 4 gpu’s using about 700kHw per month electric, zero in gas as it only for heating which I never put on. Stopped mining 3 months ago and now only using 150kHw ish electric pm. Whole bill only comes to £38pm but they won’t change the dd lower the £100pm, I know it’s probably based on 12 month average usage but I’m already £300 in credit and my gas/electric will be free from October with the £400 government help. Tried explaining it to them but they said nothing they can do?

 

[chrcoluk]

I dunno, I haven't seen the output from the trial. I know they did it.
I think it was based on weekly units, so you used say 5 last week between 4pm and 8pm we will give you £0.3 for every unit you use less this week.
Maybe they found that the benefit needed to get people to switch was a lot higher than they could afford to discount elsewhere to achieve the same impact.

But yes the potential for abuse is there as ever with complicated schemes unless they iron out all the scams in advance.

I would prefer to wean everyone to variable pricing, over time.

It needs to be variable since it needs to reflect grid output. If its a windy and sunny day then generation from renewables will be high and unit costs should (once decoupled from gas) be very low.
Getting people to do the variable as much as possible during that time is whats needed.
Can't just have a static x time = y price just wont deliver the savings. It will help but its still assuming supply is constant at same price.
Equally if its low wind and low sun then trying to price as many to defer usage works well as well.

So they gave you notice for the upcoming period where they would pay you?

Agile already does variable hourly rates, so I think just make a tariff like Agile and discount off peak when the wind is down etc. No baseline or we pay you nonsense, just much cheaper energy, make it priced like GO off peak as a proper incentive. Not E7 pricing.

 

[200sols]

Scottish Power are being a pain with my DD. I was eth mining for the last 18 months with 4 gpu’s using about 700kHw per month electric, zero in gas as it only for heating which I never put on. Stopped mining 3 months ago and now only using 150kHw ish electric pm. Whole bill only comes to £38pm but they won’t change the dd lower the £100pm, I know it’s probably based on 12 month average usage but I’m already £300 in credit and my gas/electric will be free from October with the £400 government help. Tried explaining it to them but they said nothing they can do?

Tell them you want to go onto variable payments.

 

[MatsyLR]

Scottish Power are being a pain with my DD. I was eth mining for the last 18 months with 4 gpu’s using about 700kHw per month electric, zero in gas as it only for heating which I never put on. Stopped mining 3 months ago and now only using 150kHw ish electric pm. Whole bill only comes to £38pm but they won’t change the dd lower the £100pm, I know it’s probably based on 12 month average usage but I’m already £300 in credit and my gas/electric will be free from October with the £400 government help. Tried explaining it to them but they said nothing they can do?

Switch to whole amount DD, something most people should be doing anyway if they dont have budget issues.

 

[Harnser]

Wow that electric is low do you have solar?

199kWh isn't that low if it's only 1-2 people in the house. Wife and i are home all day and we used 208kWh in August. And we cook on electric. Hot weather and cold food helped that month.

 

[Gixer]

Wow that gas usage is mentally low. 1kWh of gas. I mean a gas hob used is 0.9kWh alone so that for 20mins is 0.3kWh. A 5min shower is around 1.22kWh (4min shower using about 30ltr water), so those two alone is going to use 1.52kWh in a day. I really can't see it unless you of course as a family of 4 all shower only once evert 2 days all together for that 5mins?

In the summer months my household use not much more. Two adults and a 4yo and 2yo. We are using around 41 - 43kwh per week on electricity and currently around 12kwh (1metric unit) per week on gas.

Gas is only used to heat water (combi boiler).

Wife is WFH so laptop on daily during the week, plus three monitors. All cooking is done using electric appliances.

Think we do quite well.

Gas use will go up considerably in winter to heat a detached 3bed 1950s house. Tumble dryer use will be more limited, though we always dry on the washing line whenever possible, even over winter. That'll be the main reason our electricity use will rise.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Scottish Power are being a pain with my DD. I was eth mining for the last 18 months with 4 gpu’s using about 700kHw per month electric, zero in gas as it only for heating which I never put on. Stopped mining 3 months ago and now only using 150kHw ish electric pm. Whole bill only comes to £38pm but they won’t change the dd lower the £100pm, I know it’s probably based on 12 month average usage but I’m already £300 in credit and my gas/electric will be free from October with the £400 government help. Tried explaining it to them but they said nothing they can do?

You have to work with your supplier, I went through this but have it sorted now. Do some ground work, record your readings, take photo's. Escalate it, I had to try it under a complaint or they wont change tactic. Throw in the entities like Citizens Advice, Regulator, MSE etc. Once they know you speak their language you can hurdle the normal barrierrs.

I spoke with a reasonable manager and it was resolved after two emails dealing with him (using my photo's and explaining the use drop).

 

[McPhee]

Switch to whole amount DD, something most people should be doing anyway if they don't have budget issues.

Or swap to a supplier who lets you choose your own DD payments without fuss

I had none of these issues with Octopus when I stopped mining. Just popped on to my online account and changed my DD down. I received one automated email warning me that my payments might not be enough to cover my usage, and that my DD might have to rise if that was the case. And that was it.

 

[HungryHippos]

You have to work with your supplier, I went through this but have it sorted now. Do some ground work, record your readings, take photo's. Escalate it, I had to try it under a complaint or they wont change tactic. Throw in the entities like Citizens Advice, Regulator, MSE etc. Once they know you speak their language you can hurdle the normal barrierrs.

I spoke with a reasonable manager and it was resolved after two emails dealing with him (using my photo's and explaining the use drop).

That seems a lot of effort vs just switching to variable/whole DD though!

 

[Ahleckz]

This idea of paying you back if you use more off peak is incredibly unfair to those who have the old smart meters that now don’t work. The government should be mandating the energy suppliers fix these ASAP.

 

[McPhee]

Going to be interesting to see how the fixed tariff discount impacts smart tariffs. Octopus Go (at ~40p day and 7.5p night rate) currently costs me (on average) slightly less than the current cap. However, my day rate is above the Energy Price Guarantee.

I'm not relying on getting assistance by any means. I'm content (given current market conditions) with my fixed deal. But curious to see what happens.

 

[HungryHippos]

Going to be interesting to see how the fixed tariff discount impacts smart tariffs. Octopus Go (at ~40p day and 7.5p night rate) currently costs me (on average) slightly less than the current cap. However, my day rate is above the Energy Price Guarantee.

I'm not relying on getting assistance by any means. I'm content (given current market conditions) with my fixed deal. But curious to see what happens.

my guess is overnight stays the same, daytime rate drops to 34p/kwh, but the news from ofgem about reducing fixed prices by a fixed amount seems random, so in theory the daytime rate could drop by 17p/kwh down to 23p/kwh which would make it sort of ridiculously OP.

 

[Troop]

^^^ I'm not so sure, the cap is for the variable rate, don't think it will apply to the fixed rates, I hope I'm wrong!
You might have to leave the fixed rates to get on the caped rate.

 

[delta0]

^^^ I'm not so sure, the cap is for the variable rate, don't think it will apply to the fixed rates, I hope I'm wrong!
You might have to leave the fixed rates to get on the caped rate.

Fixed rates are going to be discounted by 17p. However the details of what this means in practice have yet to be seen. I believe Octopus should be announcing something at the end of this week.

 

[Troop]

Fixed rates are going to be discounted by 17p. However the details of what this means in practice have yet to be seen. I believe Octopus should be announcing something at the end of this week.

Just taken this from the Octopus web portal.