Energy Suppliers

I changing to the new octopus intelligent as it's gone from 39p to 28p during the day, but staying at 7.5p on the night. Bit annoying that the daily charge has gone up slightly again though.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Its not quoted its how its billed.
If you scroll up you can see my bill data and my actual data which very much do not align.

As Hippo says, unless you have very significant deviations between days (usage and/or cost) then the averages and bills will be very close.
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Ok I tracked back on the discussion, Agile does the same thing on billing.

It will quote on the bill a usage and a unit rate for the entire bill (even though unit rates and usage are done in 30 minute increments), but I think they do that just to make it presentable on the bill in ways people who are used to legacy billing understand.

I think to verify if they do actually bill differently to (daily usage x billing rate per day, then add all days together for bill) one would need to get the calculator out to verify.

Here is an example from Agile.

Breakdown by rate
Rate Consumption Cost
19.72p/kWh 161.2 kWh £31.79
Total consumption 161.2kWh @ 19.72p/kWh † £31.79
Standing Charge 30 days @ 20.00p/day £6.00
Subtotal of charges before VAT £37.79
VAT @ 5.00% £1.89
Total Electricity Charges £39.68
† Average unit rate charged per kilowatt-hour.
Click to expand...
 
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chrcoluk said:
Ok I tracked back on the discussion, Agile does the same thing on billing.
Click to expand...

I don't think Agile does that, it should accurately bill you for 30 min increments like Go/Flux does. Bill usually includes a daily breakdown.

For tracker it just works differently and you can tell because the actual usage per day they bill you doesn't reflect reality.
 
chrcoluk said:
Ok I tracked back on the discussion, Agile does the same thing on billing.

It will quote on the bill a usage and a unit rate for the entire bill (even though unit rates and usage are done in 30 minute increments), but I think they do that just to make it presentable on the bill in ways people who are used to legacy billing understand.

I think to verify if they do actually bill differently to (daily usage x billing rate per day, then add all days together for bill) one would need to get the calculator out to verify.

Here is an example from Agile.
Click to expand...

But again whilst my example backs it up your also ignoring "Something to bear in mind as well is that you get charged for the monthly average of all the daily readings, not on a day to day basis."
 
HungryHippos said:
I don't think Agile does that, it should accurately bill you for 30 min increments like Go/Flux does. Bill usually includes a daily breakdown.

For tracker it just works differently and you can tell because the actual usage per day they bill you doesn't reflect reality.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was going to say , does Agile not give the daily 30 minute breakdown like Go does. I assumed it would be exactly the same, just with many different rates applied.
 
HungryHippos said:
I don't think Agile does that, it should accurately bill you for 30 min increments like Go/Flux does. Bill usually includes a daily breakdown.

For tracker it just works differently and you can tell because the actual usage per day they bill you doesn't reflect reality.
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It does it on the way they present the bill, I pasted it to show MKW, so just because the bill says usage@x unit rate, it doesnt mean thats how they calculate the bill. They just presenting it to show you the average unit rate you paid over the month.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yeah I was going to say , does Agile not give the daily 30 minute breakdown like Go does. I assumed it would be exactly the same, just with many different rates applied.
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It does not. At least not on the bill, or the website.

So no daily breakdown, no 30 minute data, just a bill for the entire billing period (usually a month) with it presented as an average unit rate and billing period usage.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Odd then, you get a detailed bill by 30 minute intervals by day on Go

The headline part at the top of the bill for both gas and elec matches the detailed below.

Its just that for gas the detailed bit is made up.
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I guess can send you a edited PDF, so you have a copy of an Agile bill for reference, I will need to edit out my personal details though.

If they do that on GO, dont know why they dont on Agile, basically to check the usage, have to use the historical usage data on the website/app, but it never shows the cost per 30 minutes, just the usage. Or what you get on the API. There is a separate cost per 30 mins graph (table on phone app) as well for current day and next day on the account dashboard, but historical days are lost.

Thats why Octopus watch app was made, I think that shows the cost per increment.
 
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chrcoluk said:
I guess can send you a edited PDF, so you have a copy of an Agile bill for reference, I will need to edit out my personal details though.

If they do that on GO, dont know why they dont on Agile, basically to check the usage, have to use the historical usage data on the website/app, but it never shows the cost per 30 minutes, just the usage. Or what you get on the API. There is a separate cost per 30 mins graph (table on phone app) as well for current day and next day on the account dashboard, but historical days are lost.

Thats why Octopus watch app was made, I think that shows the cost per increment.
Click to expand...

This is the data split for one day on Go. Plus some other info like a graph etc
This data them summarises to the top bill, just like the Gas tracker data does.
The issue is that whilst the elec data is accurate, the gas data is just not real data.

Period Rate p / kWh Consumption kWh Cost p
00:00 - 00:30 38.22 0.01 0.459
00:30 - 01:00 7.14 3.11 22.197
01:00 - 01:30 7.14 3.53 25.218
01:30 - 02:00 7.14 1.53 10.949
02:00 - 02:30 7.14 0.81 5.778
02:30 - 03:00 7.14 0.51 3.614
03:00 - 03:30 7.14 0.31 2.214
03:30 - 04:00 7.14 0.30 2.171
04:00 - 04:30 7.14 0.30 2.150
04:30 - 05:00 38.22 0.01 0.497
05:00 - 05:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
05:30 - 06:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
06:00 - 06:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
06:30 - 07:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
07:00 - 07:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
07:30 - 08:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
08:00 - 08:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
08:30 - 09:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
09:00 - 09:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
09:30 - 10:00 38.22 0.00 0.076
10:00 - 10:30 38.22 0.00 0.000
10:30 - 11:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
11:00 - 11:30 38.22 0.00 0.000
11:30 - 12:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
12:00 - 12:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
12:30 - 13:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
13:00 - 13:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
13:30 - 14:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
14:00 - 14:30 38.22 0.00 0.000
14:30 - 15:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
15:00 - 15:30 38.22 0.00 0.000
15:30 - 16:00 38.22 0.00 0.000
16:00 - 16:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
16:30 - 17:00 38.22 0.00 0.000
17:00 - 17:30 38.22 0.00 0.000
17:30 - 18:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
18:00 - 18:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
18:30 - 19:00 38.22 0.00 0.076
19:00 - 19:30 38.22 0.00 0.115
19:30 - 20:00 38.22 0.00 0.000
20:00 - 20:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
20:30 - 21:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
21:00 - 21:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
21:30 - 22:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
22:00 - 22:30 38.22 0.00 0.038
22:30 - 23:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
23:00 - 23:30 38.22 0.00 0.076
23:30 - 00:00 38.22 0.00 0.038
 
I apologise, I see daily rates for my gas tracker, and I also see 30 minute rates for Agile, I guess I just never scrolled down the bill before.

So Agile does show the 30 minute costs and it shows the average unit rate for the billing period in the summary.

Gas tracker shows the daily cost and it shows the average unit rate for the billing period in the summary.
 
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chrcoluk said:
I apologise, I see daily rates for my gas tracker, and I also see 30 minute rates for Agile, I guess I just never scrolled down the bill before.

So Agile does show the 30 minute costs and it shows the average unit rate for the billing period in the summary.

Gas tracker shows the daily cost and it shows the average unit rate for the billing period in the summary.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but the difference being, the Elec daily usages and rates are real, whilst for Gas, the daily usages are made up.

Which backs up "Something to bear in mind as well is that you get charged for the monthly average of all the daily readings, not on a day to day basis."

As I demonstrate in the post somewhere above when I posted the daily bill charge and the real usage for the day.
I have many days with zero usage as I have solar and a diverter that heats my water tank. If its sunny and we do not use the gas hob I have zero gas usage.
Most days in May were zero gas for heating (were 3 days when it used a bit I think), most days were no gas for water, although I think 2-3 days did a bit due to low solar.
Then around half the days we will use one or more hobs one or more times.
There were 12-13 days we used zero gas (per detailed Octopus data on website) and yet on the bill breakdown calculation it claims every day in May had a usage that almost perfectly reduced across the month.
 
Yeah we pretty much covered that yesterday I think, the gas usage is just made up and averaged across the billing period, I think the total units used is right, and the number of days etc, but they've basically split it across to balance the usage.

As far as I'm aware this is only a thing on the tracker and all other smart tariffs are good.

They probably do it this way as not all customers have smart meters, and gas meter is a bit less reliable than elec probably anyway.
 
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Hmm my gas usage on my bill matches my historical data.

I am going to speculate, they do state when the gas meter fails to report they will use average usage data for that day, is it possible that when the data is zero it is coded to assume its a failed reading and bills at average usage for the day? As I checked my historical data, it does match up with what is on the bill. The 3.xx days are pilot usage, and the the days I am heating water match up.

If it was as you said I would be seeing equal usage for every day, with no spikes for usage.

Code: 
22nd April 2023 98.550 p/thm 4.68 p/kWh 15.06 kWh £0.70
23rd April 2023 98.550 p/thm 4.68 p/kWh 9.69 kWh £0.45
24th April 2023 98.080 p/thm 4.66 p/kWh 3.68 kWh £0.17
25th April 2023 97.350 p/thm 4.63 p/kWh 3.62 kWh £0.17
26th April 2023 97.650 p/thm 4.64 p/kWh 3.60 kWh £0.17
27th April 2023 90.550 p/thm 4.39 p/kWh 3.59 kWh £0.16
28th April 2023 90.250 p/thm 4.38 p/kWh 14.84 kWh £0.65
29th April 2023 90.250 p/thm 4.38 p/kWh 3.61 kWh £0.16
30th April 2023 90.250 p/thm 4.38 p/kWh 3.61 kWh £0.16
1st May 2023 90.250 p/thm 4.38 p/kWh 3.64 kWh £0.16
2nd May 2023 90.250 p/thm 4.38 p/kWh 3.55 kWh £0.16
3rd May 2023 85.800 p/thm 4.22 p/kWh 3.51 kWh £0.15
4th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 3.53 kWh £0.14
5th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 3.56 kWh £0.15
6th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 17.58 kWh £0.72
7th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 3.57 kWh £0.15
8th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 3.56 kWh £0.15
9th May 2023 82.600 p/thm 4.10 p/kWh 3.59 kWh £0.15
10th May 2023 85.050 p/thm 4.19 p/kWh 3.61 kWh £0.15
11th May 2023 81.550 p/thm 4.06 p/kWh 17.24 kWh £0.70
12th May 2023 78.550 p/thm 3.95 p/kWh 3.58 kWh £0.14
13th May 2023 78.550 p/thm 3.95 p/kWh 3.52 kWh £0.14
14th May 2023 78.550 p/thm 3.95 p/kWh 3.56 kWh £0.14
15th May 2023 78.550 p/thm 3.95 p/kWh 3.57 kWh £0.14
16th May 2023 73.100 p/thm 3.76 p/kWh 3.59 kWh £0.13
17th May 2023 74.450 p/thm 3.80 p/kWh 14.59 kWh £0.55
18th May 2023 71.550 p/thm 3.70 p/kWh 5.94 kWh £0.22
19th May 2023 64.100 p/thm 3.43 p/kWh 3.56 kWh £0.12
20th May 2023 63.550 p/thm 3.41 p/kWh 3.63 kWh £0.12
21st May 2023 63.550 p/thm 3.41 p/kWh 17.06 kWh £0.58
 
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I read elsewhere, those getting on it were already informed some days ago. So if you havent heard anything by now it doesnt bode well for a July move.
 
chrcoluk said:
I read elsewhere, those getting on it were already informed some days ago. So if you havent heard anything by now it doesnt bode well for a July move.
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I was informed by telephone on thursday to wait for the email……and have an email from june with a guaranteed slot. So just have to wait. 50, 0000 customers are guaranteed a slot, thats a lot to transfer.
 
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