England and Wales are no longer Christian nations...

[413x]

There is nothing wrong with religion per se. It's fanaticism and exploitation which are the issues: these are both human traits and they are not going anywhere. Humans gonna human.

This. Absolutely this. No issue with people believing in sky fairies etc but should cause changes in government policy etc.

And it shouldn't be allowed to create breed division and exclusion


But in general I fully. Support the decline of religion.

 

[Hagar]

We could have a doom and gloom sub-fourm, but your right everything Is a bit depressing right now.

We do have whingers corner. Now that's something to be pleased about, that you are not there.

 

[PlacidCasual]

I read a really interesting article on Deep Reading recently and how it makes us better at imagining other people perspectives. It went on to suggest that the Protestant Reformation was one of the seminal moments in Western literacy and thus Deep Reading. This is because one of the core views of Protestantism is that you should read the Scriptures yourself and not accept the words of the faith only through another. Thus in North West Europe literacy spread with Protestantism, literacy made more people feel empathy for others and the virtuous circle helps enable the modern World.

I don't do the article justice with that very very light synopsis.

 

[GGizmo]

People simply arent going to Churches to be indoctrinated taught anymore.

I agree.

Though I'd add that many things mentioned in the Church isn't in the Bible. Most of it is opinion developed after the Bible and as now become the orthodox position.

I suspect in the future we're going to see the rise of Islam and more "reverts" (as Muslims say) to Islam.

 

[dave28]

I suspect in the future we're going to see the rise of Islam and more "reverts" (as Muslims say) to Islam.

20 years ago I visited my sister in Preston, she was in Uni at the time.

If you could travel back in time and ask me, what is the dominant religion in this City at a guess from just walking around it ?
I would have replied Islam and that was 20 years back.

 

[Hagar]

I read a really interesting article on Deep Reading recently and how it makes us better at imagining other people perspectives. It went on to suggest that the Protestant Reformation was one of the seminal moments in Western literacy and thus Deep Reading. This is because one of the core views of Protestantism is that you should read the Scriptures yourself and not accept the words of the faith only through another. Thus in North West Europe literacy spread with Protestantism, literacy made more people feel empathy for others and the virtuous circle helps enable the modern World.

I don't do the article justice with that very very light synopsis.

Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition.

We did have a fair few wars on the back of Protestantism. Religious and economic. I agree that reading the bible led onto reading other books and the spread of science amongst other knowledge. From Martin Luther to our Henry Eighth, there were several interesting takes on protestant beliefs, dissolution of the monasteries, a bit of money grabbing through to the puritans and the founding fathers. An interesting time in our history. Now tending to apathy and a disinterest in books maybe.

 

[robfosters]

Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition.

We did have a fair few wars on the back of Protestantism. Religious and economic. I agree that reading the bible led onto reading other books and the spread of science amongst other knowledge. From Martin Luther to our Henry Eighth, there were several interesting takes on protestant beliefs, dissolution of the monasteries, a bit of money grabbing though to puritans and the founding fathers. An interesting time in our history. Now tending to apathy and a disinterest in books maybe.

The Gutenberg bible was the first ever book to be printed in mass. It was the gateway to the literary world.

If anyone‘s got one I’ll give you a grand for it

 

[Hagar]

The Gutenberg bible was the first ever book to be printed in mass. It was the gateway to the literary world.

If anyone‘s got one I’ll give you a grand for it

I will swap you a first folio edition of Shakespearean plays.

 

[NickK]

In france the state does not recognise religion. Officially.. however that does not stop religious individuals from collaborating.

 

[robfosters]

I will swap you a first folio edition of Shakespearean plays.

That’s a shame as I gave mine to the local Marie Curie shop a few weeks ago

 

[benjii]

I wonder if we can ever properly separate state and religion while we have a monarchy. I don't think the monarchy is going anywhere, but it's a pretty strong anchor to the Church of England.

Maybe it'll be one of those things where officially it remains the same, it just continues to get phased out quietly. Sunday trading needs to do one.

 

[nst68]

Isn't the change in stats because those that previously 'identified' as Christian now say they are either agnostic or no longer practicing christians?

Not sure this can be pinned entirely on the hordes of immigrants the headlines are trying to imply are the cause..

It's probably the old people that were Christians have shuffled off this mortal coil and young un's who are now doing the census don't really care about religion

 

[muon]

Damn muslims taking over. Is this the general theme of certain posters in this thread?



edit: Yep can see the usual suspects, looking through the thread.

I think the entire world is trending towards less religion, which is a good things.

 

[ICDP]

Well, much better than it was for the majority of human history. I won't die at 30 from a common cold or work myself into an early grave while my family borderline starves the whole time.



Ah yes, the old, suffer for the sins of your fathers argument. I love the idea that everyone in England has had a wonderful time over the past few hundred years as a result of our colonial past as well. That guy working down the mines, the peasants scrabbling around in the dirt to scrape a living until they die young, the children in the work house.

The rich and powerful are the people who mainly benefitted from this. Not the 99%, the 1% but nah, screw the whole country hey. Such a sad view and if you dug even slightly below the surface you would find that most countries have an abhorrent past.

I agree with this but always find it odd that so many of these poor downtrodden British people are “proud” of this history.

 

[Rai200]

Well, if you don't want the government to base its laws on religion then the 10 commandments are out the window right?

And yet i haven't seen a counter argument yet

What are you on about? The law has jack **** to do with the ten commandments.

If they were then not being Christian would be illegal, making/worshipping statues would be illegal, saying "Jesus Christ on a bicycle" would be illegal, working on a Sunday would be illegal, calling your Mum a right old **** would be illegal and so on.

Evil has a massive foothold in the world.

People have turned their back on God.

You reap what you sow!

How does one turn their back on an omnipresent being, exactly?

 

[Mr Jack]

Well, if you don't want the government to base its laws on religion then the 10 commandments are out the window right?

When people make arguments like this I wonder what they think the 10 commandments are? Roughly 2.5 of the commandments are law, and those 2 are the most utterly universal ethics that its absurd to pretend that the law comes from the 10 commandments:

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Honour your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder - Illegal under the law
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal - Illegal under the law
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour - Sometimes illegal, mostly not
10. You shall not covet.

Everything distinctively Jewish on that list is not covered by British law. Even historically, most of that list was not.

 

[robfosters]

1,4 and 7 have been illegal in the past.

 

[Stretch]

Damn muslims taking over. Is this the general theme of certain posters in this thread?



edit: Yep can see the usual suspects, looking through the thread.

I think the entire world is trending towards less religion, which is a good things.

It’s the fastest growing religion in the world

 

[D.P.]

Christian values are basically 'don't be a ****'. It's a little disingenuous to suggest that atheists who try and live decent lives are basically Christians in denial.

and they predate Christianity, and are shared by all major religions. So it would be just as valid to claim these are Islamic or Hindu values

 

[Begbie]

Islam up 44% in one census alone...now 6.5% of population and definitely underreported.

But I remember the liberals saying they were going to assimilate in and become secular!

Native population down another 5%. Certain places like Leicester now a majority non white. But the replacement theory is just conspiracy!

(For what it's worth I'm fine with the genocide of the British they caused so much misery in the past few hundred years that its karma. I'm just worried about the impact on the rest of Europe).

The rest of Europe has only done good. No one ever done bad. Infact none of them even caused misery on the British.