England's young people near bottom of global league table for basic skills

[RDM]

By simply using the scientific method, it doesn't mean you have to abide by it regardless of the ethical consequences - what a frankly stupid thing to suggest.


It identifies the best method, then our ethical rules are applied to ensure no breaches of human rights are observed.

Which then undermines your "evidence based approach" if we are disregarding any evidence for whatever ethical reasons we decide upon. It also doesn't address the areas where scientific evidence is only partly or loosely available. (Which you asked for examples of and then completely ignored for some reason).

What part of using the scientific method to determine the validity of a claim means using whatever method is optimal 100% without any external considerations?.

I'm struggling to see what point you are trying (and failing) to make.

The point I am trying (and obviously failing) to make is that your ideal of an evidence based approach is flawed in its own way because a lot of the problems dealt with in the political area are not currently modelled to any real degree of accuracy.

Obviously, that doesn't fit with your ideology..

 

[Housey]

I think our education system is very broken and this reflects itself in the school and university leavers we see today, in the main. There are some exceptionally bright kids coming out of the education system, they do exist, but the majority are not ready for adult life and we can only put the blame at the feet of their parents, the education system and our modern culture. I think this has always been an issue, but I do think it has got much worse in the last 20 years or so.

The last 2 years of schooling in my opinion should be focused on core education, being our national language, mathematics, physics and history matched with education on being a good member of society and an understanding of what is expected of you in the big wide world. This is really missing in most of todays education leavers and it is a huge cost and massively time consuming to instil such values in people when they begin work and no GCSE's or A levels can account for that.

BIG subject, no easy answers, but we need to spend more time on values and culture as the focus on getting exam results isn't working and holds little value in the real world until you start to move into highly specialised areas. Most companies want people who can read well, write well, add up even with help and present themselves well, who can put across a point well and explain things. Sadly most education leavers really struggle with this bit and it's nothing to do with life experience and all to do with education.

 

[Biohazard]

This is genuinely sad to read. It's like civilisation going backwards.

Take further steps towards diluting teacher-class ratios and hours, particularly in the early years, and this will never improve.

 

[Xordium]

Take further steps towards diluting teacher-class ratios, particularly in the early years, and this will never improve.

Which was and still is the plan

 

[Mark A]

Am I the only one who is driven crazy by the fact that 90% of Cosimo's posts either completely miss the point or are non-sequiturs

Nope. For someone who posts 52 times a day, i'm guessing he just goes through the latest posts and replies to that, without reading the thread.

 

[spoffle]

You see, that's the problem. People associate national pride with racism here. It's not the same thing at all. National pride is being patriotic and loving your country, racism is hating people who look different and who are from other countries and cultures.

The two aren't the same thing. That's like saying all Islamists are bombers and all Christians are the Westboro Baptist Church.

Patriotism/national pride is a borderline mental illness. It makes no sense at all to be proud of arbitrarily assigned lines on a map.

 

[Tom_ed1987]

This is what happens when you reduce teaching and exam standards consecutively over many years, deny this has happened, put this grade inflation down to 'improvements in teaching' and 'kids are getting smarter' and give yourself and your unionised colleagues a good pat on the back.
Is anyone honestly surprised by this?

 

[Housey]

When I was a kid, my parents used to spend time with me in the morning and when I got in from school until I went to bed. It might be discussing the day, reading, talking about 'stuff' and generally keeping abreast of me and what I was up to. We had 3 channels on telly, they didn't run for much more than 12-14 hours in the main, no computers, no ipads, no twitter, email or other such distractions. It was talk to me, read a book or watch one of the 3 channels. When the sun was out I was kicked out. I played footy, built a camp or rode my bike. Now all people look at these things with rosy specs, but that was reality of growing up in the 70's.

There would be 1 or 2 kids who found their dads porno collection, so you might get a Thomas tank mag once a year to share (yuk) and we never had pregnant school kids or drugs really. It was a different time and kids were innocent but we were also told from a very young age about things that today are often missing. I don't have kids, but I see it in friends kids and it is truly upsetting, the lack of direction, the lack of interaction, the sheer lack of picking them up on things such as manners that I struggle with.

Then you see how old young kids are today, the internet can't be uninvented, neither can mobile phones, twitter, Facebook, but I come past a school today and I see heads down kids with mobile phones. Is it any wonder they don't see what's going on around them, notice stuff or care much about the world outside of their little screen.

I don't have the answers, but the education system and parenting has not moved with the times in my book and is very very broken.

 

[FoxEye]

1. Too many "laissez faire" parents.
2. Bad role models (esp on TV, as due to 1. our kids get their role models from TV).
3. Lack of community. Each household is now their own insular world, like the British Gas advert. Nobody cares about their neighbour, the kids mostly stay at home playing Wii or XBox, instead of off with their friends.
4. Excessive consumption. TV, XBox, Wii, movies. Passive entertainment which is not stimulating or educational.
5. No aspirations; few opportunities.
6. Life is too easy; no hardship. Too much benefit money and free housing if you drop a couple sprogs. We're all too soft and lazy.

No, I don't write for the Daily Mail

 

[Xordium]

Patriotism/national pride is a borderline mental illness. It makes no sense at all to be proud of arbitrarily assigned lines on a map.

It does when that arbitrarily drawn bond decides what perceived group you are from which feeds into our most basic social interactions and reactions. To label that as a borderline mental illness is daft.

No, I don't write for the Daily Mail

You should apply you seem to have the requisite skillset.

 

[Efour]

I blame new Labour...

 

[King Damager]

Have you seen the list of countries? 'Near the bottom' sounds like we're competing with Africa.

We're beating the US.

kd

 

[Housey]

To have pride in or negativity towards, you first need to understand some key aspects of the history of our country and its culture. Sadly this is lacking or misaligned in so many people it doesn't even warrant debating. When I see constant ****ging off of our country I see a big part of the problem. We have built a country of pessimists not optimists and that is truly sad and I say that as someone who fights hard to remain optimistic.

 

[FoxEye]

We're beating the US.

kd

Because they *are* bottom In fact they're going backwards, with new generations being less educated than their parents.

 

[sports_brah]

I think aside from the usual problems posted here, that've got a problem on an overall level with the direction this country is going in. What are we aiming for? There seems to be a distinct lack of strategy.

Also the nature of jobs seems to be changing. Lower end jobs have no security, no progress, no status and no incentive. There is very little between this and very advanced and skilled jobs.

 

[spoffle]

It does when that arbitrarily drawn bond decides what perceived group you are from which feeds into our most basic social interactions and reactions. To label that as a borderline mental illness is daft.

Not particularly, though they were two sentences. Patriotism or national pride is what I'm saying is a borderline mental illness.

The next part was my pointing out that I don't understand why anyone would be proud of "their country" based on lines drawn on a map.

 

[oldbag]

Parents should be a role model for kids to do better than them, but somehow that's been lost, be that down to the welfare system, education, or the parents - I don't think one of those things is souly to blame, but a combination of those things. Also things that are meant for the good of the people are always done in a way that makes money, not a lot of the time in the interests of the people, this has happened ever more in the last 10 years or so.

Either way it's bad for society and bad for the uk. We have become almost extreme capitalists, where money is everything.

 

[FoxEye]

Either way it's bad for society and bad for the uk. We have become almost extreme capitalists, where money is everything.

But I think we're becoming tired of our ultra-capitalist society. Our continual orgy of consumerism is making us sick, literally. Our acceptance that everything must be judged in £/$, even our own worth is measured this way.

Honestly, extreme capitalism is totally irrational. It's like an illness or disease of society. It takes all the joy out of everything we do. You can't make the product you want to make, you have to make the product that's cost effective and has built-in obsolescence.

You can't do the proper job your parents would have done, you have to finish the job within 30 minutes because that's the allocated timescale, and your van is being tracked to make sure you move on...

And always at the back of your mind, whilst you're acting in all ways like a machine, uncaring and unsatisfied, is that the people making the most money off your endeavour are the shareholders. The stock traders. The CEOs and middle managers.

Modern society is such a cancer on all of us, and I don't know if there is a cure.

 

[Xordium]

Patriotism or national pride is what I'm saying is a borderline mental illness.

And I am saying that it is daft thing to say. It's an unqualified and totally unsubstantiated throwaway remark. Maybe you would like to add some weight to it.

The next part was my pointing out that I don't understand why anyone would be proud of "their country" based on lines drawn on a map.

They are proud of their association not the lines of the map. Surely you can see that. There is a big difference. I profess my love for my wife and what she stands for and who she is. I don't profess my love based upon her boundaries even if I do like the shape of them.

 

[Biohazard]

Not particularly, though they were two sentences. Patriotism or national pride is what I'm saying is a borderline mental illness.

The next part was my pointing out that I don't understand why anyone would be proud of "their country" based on lines drawn on a map.

Is culture the expression or outcome of that same mental illness?