England's young people near bottom of global league table for basic skills

[RDM]

I'm not sure what would fit into this criteria mind, a few examples may help me respond (as I'm unsure what a government my try to legislate in, in which evidence can't be obtained) .

Education is a good area for a start. Several of the primary education theorists are completely at odds with each other, most are also not really backed up with any solid scientific research either (the problem of ethics rears its head here quite a bit.

Evidence based decision making also tends to ignore the emotional impact or can be at a macro level and ignoring the micro level. Immigration would be a prime example of this, on a macro level the economic benefits are reasonably clear, however this completely ignores the micro level and the impact on certain socio economic groups. It also dismisses the emotional impact of mass immigration as "xenophobic" or "racist".

 

[Rapier]

A strong emphasis on evidence based policy would help alleviate the worst meddling we have seen in recent years.

I highly doubt it. Aside from medicine, who from the cabinet has a scientific background? It's pretty ridiculous that policy can be solely derived from conjecture.

 

[TommyV]

'gluttony for people aged 16-24' would surely deem us higher in the ranks.

 

[Mark A]

I think we all just realised that we have spell checkers and calculators now .

I read that our universities are also falling, with only 3 in the top 20. The article said it was due to the fact America invests heavily in research and we don't have the funds available to keep up.

 

[smelly_legend]

Let people loose and specialize from a young age with the inquisitive mind. From this, the inspiration to branch out in to such subjects as fundamental as language and mathematics would follow, as to learn a subject in depth, one must know how to use the resources of knowledge available to them.

Take modding a game for example - you start by playing games. It may seem like a waste of time, then you may start modding your games, then you might start learning to code, thus branching out into maths, geometry etc.

Drilling interest in to kids ain't gonna make them inspired to do anything really.

 

[elmarko]

Education is a good area for a start. Several of the primary education theorists are completely at odds with each other, most are also not really backed up with any solid scientific research either (the problem of ethics rears its head here quite a bit.

Evidence based decision making also tends to ignore the emotional impact or can be at a macro level and ignoring the micro level. Immigration would be a prime example of this, on a macro level the economic benefits are reasonably clear, however this completely ignores the micro level and the impact on certain socio economic groups. It also dismisses the emotional impact of mass immigration as "xenophobic" or "racist".

The scientific method doesn't have to be enacted in full, it's fully capable of giving us a list of methods which work best to a given problem, then us using our ethical considerations to pick solutions which meet the required criteria (protection of minorities/vulnerable etc).

 

[RDM]

The scientific method doesn't have to be enacted in full, it's fully capable of giving us a list of methods which work best to a given problem, then us using our ethical considerations to pick solutions which meet the required criteria (protection of minorities/vulnerable etc).

So cherry pick the results using flawed analysis that match your ideology? Which is effectively what you are doing if you don't really use the scientific method in full and pick and choose from a list of methods.

 

[elmarko]

So cherry pick the results using flawed analysis that match your ideology? Which is effectively what you are doing if you don't really use the scientific method in full and pick and choose from a list of methods.

By simply using the scientific method, it doesn't mean you have to abide by it regardless of the ethical consequences - what a frankly stupid thing to suggest.

It identifies the best method, then our ethical rules are applied to ensure no breaches of human rights are observed.

What part of using the scientific method to determine the validity of a claim means using whatever method is optimal 100% without any external considerations?.

I'm struggling to see what point you are trying (and failing) to make.

 

[coolsurfer]

Your mom and dad did very well and good luck to them. But I wonder what would have happened if they stayed in India? bet it makes you feel lucky to be here.

Class size in the UK is just silly it should be no more then 15-20 a class.

Not really, my grandparents are farmers and their agricultural land that was worth a few thousand is now worth millions of pounds. Had my dad stayed he would have been mega minted. In fact my extended family in India are laughing at all of us who moved to the us and uk.

 

[coolsurfer]

I don't think anyone has access to the resources their parents did.

Job for life culture? Dead

Ability for the small guys to compete in a given market, feeding entrepreneurship? That's gone

Normal people able to make a fair living on a regular job? Nope, wages have dropped, houses have shot up, mortgages and finance are practically unobtainable

This generation has opportunities, but they are different opportunities, and pretty crap ones.

Gone are the days when being made of steel and working hard got you places, ever since the government stopped caring about fair trading and fair competition regs this country has shot downhill making it impossible for many people to make a fair living.

If your dad came over today he'd never be able to secure funding to start his shop from the bank, probably couldn't even afford to save up for it from the crappy wages. And then the council would probably just stick a tesco metro 3 doors down effectively killing his business plan stone dead.

It's not a case of "you aren't prepared to try and make it work" it's a case of the big guys making it impossible for anyone to have anything or get anywhere.

Agree with you. My dad did what he did with Just £11. I'm on a £50k salary but with all my student loan debt, car etc couldn't hope to achieve what he did in terms of getting a business. Not yet anyway maybe after a decade of graft. Your point is right. Houses were £6k back in the day and affordable with the then wage. Multiples would screw you over and corner shop business is dying and as you say its difficult to compete with the multiples express stores.

What this thread is about though is how poor our generations literacy and numeracy skills are compared to the last generation. In terms of education the tax payers resources are available to everybody so there's no excuse for this to happen. Britain used to rule the world! And India! Why are we going downhill as a nation? Maybe as a society were taking things for granted but surely it's not a question of intelligence as even the son of an uneducated farmer can do well in this country.

It does suck how we don't have the same opportunities as our parents but we are all responsible for our own fate. If we can't change the system then we have to play the system.

 

[Xordium]

Elmarko - the scientific method itself is never an unethical approach. It's application to unethically achieved goals may be - but the method itself is not. That is a problem of experiment design and never a problem with 'the scientific method'. Your analysis is more suitable as a critique of positivism and its insidious prevalence in qualitative analysis thereby demeaning the perception and value of changes and differences.

Moreover, whilst it would seem that evidence based policy would be the best idea that again runs the peril of an overly reductionist approach where you have to assume that the problems you are examining are being isolated satisfactorily and that you can account for relationships with other things sufficiently to exclude them. However that is clearly not the case with education where social welfare, health, financial considerations, etc will all play a key. It assumes transferability of results.

 

[coolsurfer]

What I do feel though is though is part of society have messed it up for the rest us b maxing out multiple credit cards at Xmas or getting mortgages then getting the the flashy car to go with the new house, £600 a year sky, holidays, then it all falls apart when they lose their job. If more people read the millionaire next door it wouldn't be so bad. People don't live within their means then blame the banks for giving them toxic debt. I'm sure there is some blame with the banks but really....people need to learn to how to live with nothing, then need to learn to live within their means, I.e. Maximum expenditure is at most half their wage with the rest saved in a bank or invested in stock/property etc. Its not rocket science.

 

[android guy]

Too much multiculturalism in this country - It's bringing it to it's knees

 

[coolsurfer]

Elmarko - the scientific method itself is never an unethical approach. It's application to unethically achieved goals may be - but the method itself is not. That is a problem of experiment design and never a problem with 'the scientific method'. Your analysis is more suitable as a critique of positivism and its insidious prevalence in qualitative analysis thereby demeaning the perception and value of changes and differences.

Moreover, whilst it would seem that evidence based policy would be the best idea that again runs the peril of an overly reductionist approach where you have to assume that the problems you are examining are being isolated satisfactorily and that you can account for relationships with other things sufficiently to exclude them. However that is clearly not the case with education where social welfare, health, financial considerations, etc will all play a key. It assumes transferability of results.

Damn your English is great! Wish I could articulate like you.

 

[coolsurfer]

Too much multiculturalism in this country - It's bringing it to it's knees

Android guy, my friend why am I bringing the country to its knees? Please kindly elaborate.

 

[Strife212]

u wot m8

You'll go far with your English....

Am I the only one who is driven crazy by the fact that 90% of Cosimo's posts either completely miss the point or are non-sequiturs

 

[Pestilence]

Too much multiculturalism in this country - It's bringing it to it's knees

[KEL]AWWW... HERE IT GO'!!![/KEL]

 

[Grandmaster Fap!]

Kids need to fear things again, teachers and coppers command zero respect and it seems decent parents are few and far between.

We need more slipper and cane and ruler in our education system, and if that doesnt work, gas chambers....yes, lots of those.

/goosestep y0

 

[scorza]

It's worth pointing out that among rich countries, the UK results were better than average for Computer and IT skills, and average for Literacy.

Nothing fundamental is going to change unless there's a cultural shift away from liberalism in this country. There's too much focus on what the child wants, and worse, what the parents want. You managed to have unprotected sex, well done but you're not an expert in bringing up children. We need more nanny state in schools imo.

I'm glad Labour spent so much money on schools though, it may not have achieved the desired results on its own but no one should have to school in a crumbling building with outdoor toilets in this day and age.

 

[Ryan-3]

Kids need to fear things again, teachers and coppers command zero respect and it seems decent parents are few and far between.

This is the problem. Maybe the electric chair would help?

- I went through school in schools which weren't really fit for purpose, but we received very little to help with modernising or repairing. Not too long ago they replaced a high school not too far away with an ultra-modern facility, yet manage some diabolical pass rates for GCSE, compared with a rather good pass rate where I went (well over 90% iirc). I believe most of that stems from discipline, they would start after 10am so the students could 'lie-in' and wouldn't be late in the morning...