Entitlement what can we do about it.

[spaggyboy]

Entitlement is the current group of retirees who didn't pay enough tax/pensions when working to be able to actually afford their pension and now ask for current crop of workers to foot the bill of their unsustainable pension.

No no no...

You don't get it. Entitlement only applies to the younger generation. The Boomers worked really hard to pull the ladder up and prevent their Grandchildren enjoying the same perks and benefits they did. Kids asking for fair and equitable treatment from their elders is just entitlement.

Obviously

 

[fez]

No no no...

You don't get it. Entitlement only applies to the younger generation. The Boomers worked really hard to pull the ladder up and prevent their Grandchildren enjoying the same perks and benefits they did. Kids asking for fair and equitable treatment from their elders is just entitlement.

Obviously

The problem is, the boomers by and large did work really hard. They then see todays generation generally living a cooshty life and unsurprisingly feel they are entitled. Our expectations of what we should have has risen massively as well. I'm mid-thirties and my childhood would be considered to be impoverished by todays standards despite it being nothing of the sort.

What they are missing is that they worked hard but they were rewarded for it. They paid into their pensions and now they can't see why they shouldn't draw from them for nearly as many years as they actually worked for. They can't see that house prices are ultimately unaffordable for so many. They can't see that they were lucky enough to be born in the golden generation for wealth acquisition and that someone replaying their life now would be half as well off as they were, probably worse.

Its a bit of both. Both sides are wrong and right on some issues.

 

[platypus]

You cannot be sure at all. Your company might be good for that, you might be very valuable to them vs your partner etc. There are a host of reasons that could be effecting this outside of gender. The other fundamental issue is that once women start having children, there is an assumption that they will have more and with a few children are less likely to return to the workplace in full capacity in the future.

This assumption is discrimination.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Some see all the tech that even the poorer have now and think they must have loads of disposable income but completely missing the fact that the reason they have it is that the tech is so cheap these days that it's not much of a stretch for them to get, but a lot of tech is a necessity these days. Compare it with the opposite of going out. My parents when 18 etc used to go to the pubs Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Doubt most teenagers could afford that these days.
My grandparents worked hard and did have it though in their 20s. But they were just a mechanic and nurse in a care home, house was paid off by the time they were in their 40s and both retired in last 50s with a decent pension. I think a lot of younger people now are cottoning on that they are never going to get that now with a lower paying job like you just to be able to.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The problem is, the boomers by and large did work really hard. They then see todays generation generally living a cooshty life and unsurprisingly feel they are entitled. Our expectations of what we should have has risen massively as well. I'm mid-thirties and my childhood would be considered to be impoverished by todays standards despite it being nothing of the sort.

The younger generation will always live a cooshier life than the previous generation, so long as technology progresses. So I don't think that argument works.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Some see all the tech that even the poorer have now and think they must have loads of disposable income but completely missing the fact that the reason they have it is that the tech is so cheap these days that it's not much of a stretch for them to get,

everyone is different and I am not suggesting all people complaining about no money have them.
BUT i do find it mind bogglingly stupid when i see people who are skint who have £400+ phones (and i do see such people). I mean I am fairly well paid, as is my partner but i could never justify an apple product, not when i can get a phone which functionally is capable of doing everyhing an iphone can do for 1/3 of the price.
I am told by some at work, but just get it on a contract and it is cheap then.

again what is cheap? my mobile phone contract with unlimited calls and texts and a fair amount of data is............... £7 a month i think, and my phone is £120 new. if the phone last 4 years (which is the least i expect out of mine) that puts the phone at lets be kind and say £3 a month on average. that makes those £30+ contracts with "free" iphone seem expensive to me.

do young people have it rough now... hell yes they do, I feel i was lucky with my cheap uni and when i bought my house, combined with a decade of low interest to pay off huge amounts of it.

but equally there are a number of young people who are struggling who really dont help themselves when it comes to saving money either with branded clothes and footware etc, and high end phones.

(most of my clothes come from sainsburys, tescos and jacamo!)

 

[fez]

This assumption is discrimination.

Right, but what do you expect companies to do when they are faced with this issue? To keep banging their head against a brick wall saying "I will not discriminate" or do they hire people they don't think are going to have this issue. What should be the reality and what is the reality are not always the same thing. As I have kept bleating on about, things aren't that simple or black and white.

The younger generation will always live a cooshier life than the previous generation, so long as technology progresses. So I don't think that argument works.

Thats up for debate. Generations from now on (barring some miracle change in tech or something else) are going to be less well off that their parents. Thats not progress, thats regression when you consider all the advantages we have now.

 

[fez]

do young people have it rough now... hell yes they do, I feel i was lucky with my cheap uni and when i bought my house, combined with a decade of low interest to pay off huge amounts of it.

This is the crux of the issue and why so many boomers don't want to listen. My parents didn't spend a penny they didn't have to throughout my childhood but they had free university, cheap housing and solid job prospects.

Todays generation wastes a lot of money but they have expensive university, extremely expensive housing and OK job prospects.

You can understand why they think the current generation is lazy and spoiled when they compare how people live today to how they lived. If they looked into the big ticket items a bit more they would realise they had it a lot better in many ways but people don't like to do that.

No one wants to admit that any of their success was luck. Honestly, if housing was affordable I would be 95% on the boomers side. Unfortunately it isn't and it isn't even close.

 

[spaggyboy]

The younger generation will always live a cooshier life than the previous generation, so long as technology progresses. So I don't think that argument works.

Yes, having more expensive houses, lower wages, crap pensions, lack of access to free higher education and the lack of opportunity to easily live and work in mainland Europe.

That well cushy...

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Yes, having more expensive houses, lower wages, crap pensions, lack of access to free higher education and the lack of opportunity to easily live and work in mainland Europe.

That well cushy...

It was more in reference to certain amenities, such as healthcare and medicine has improved. Global connectivity, access to food, etc..

Though you and @fez are right not everything has improved.

 

[fez]

Yes, having more expensive houses, lower wages, crap pensions, lack of access to free higher education and the lack of opportunity to easily live and work in mainland Europe.

That well cushy...

Richer parents = richer kids in many cases, cheap goods in general, access to the internet, endless entertainment, mobile phones and technology generally making our lives easier, the sum total of mankinds knowledge at your fingertips, better working conditions/rights, better quality housing, less sexism/racism. Yeah its completely awful...

As I have said, it goes both ways. In almost every way I would rather be young now than 50 years ago but in a few big ways its much worse. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Dis86]

This is the crux of the issue and why so many boomers don't want to listen. My parents didn't spend a penny they didn't have to throughout my childhood but they had free university, cheap housing and solid job prospects.

Todays generation wastes a lot of money but they have expensive university, extremely expensive housing and OK job prospects.

You can understand why they think the current generation is lazy and spoiled when they compare how people live today to how they lived. If they looked into the big ticket items a bit more they would realise they had it a lot better in many ways but people don't like to do that.

No one wants to admit that any of their success was luck. Honestly, if housing was affordable I would be 95% on the boomers side. Unfortunately it isn't and it isn't even close.

I think you touch on part of the problem. It's hard to take complaints about things being expensive seriously when so much money is spaffed up the wall in frivolities.

A prime example is one of my cousins. She's currently on holiday in the Seychelles. Her social media pages are just pics of her and her mates in bars, restaurants and on holidays.
She was whinging that she'll never be able to afford a house.
She's also never worked a day in her life.
Go figure.

 

[adam cool dude]

Richer parents = richer kids in many cases, cheap goods in general, access to the internet, endless entertainment, mobile phones and technology generally making our lives easier, the sum total of mankinds knowledge at your fingertips, better working conditions/rights, better quality housing, less sexism/racism. Yeah its completely awful...

As I have said, it goes both ways. In almost every way I would rather be young now than 50 years ago but in a few big ways its much worse. Swings and roundabouts.

Electronic goods are super cheap now compared to before. You can essentially have a home computer in your finger tips for next to nothing with a smart phone.

Nintendo 64 with each game costing £60. (£100 in todays market). We have Gamepass which gives access to 100's of games for a year that cost less than half 1 N64 game in 1998.
A home computer costing 1500 for something basic in the late 90's. (£2500 in today market). You can build a basic gaming PC for less than £1000.
You were super rich if you had a TV over 28". You can buy 50" televisions for less than £300 now.
Stream endless music for £10 a month that would have cost thousands in the 90's on CD's and tapes.
Endless media at the push of button. Gone are the days of recording movies on VCR or waiting for them to appear on television.

You had to pay extraordinary amount of money for specialist people to do simple tasks due to their knowledge. Now everything can be solved cheaply with the help of the internet and Youtube video's.

 

[malachi]

The younger generation will always live a cooshier life than the previous generation, so long as technology progresses. So I don't think that argument works.

I also have to disagree.

One of my friends, same age as me 38. Went the same path as his Boomer parents. Left school at 16 with very good grades, got his first job at a shop for 8 years. Only left because the business was restructuring, got another job working in an factory and is being paid "living wage". Has about 80K in this bank because he doesn't drive, never left the UK or has an passport, still lives at home with his parents, single and has no kids. He is miserable as hell! What worked for his parents 60 years ago, buy a house, travel abit, get married, have kids, worked in the same place all their lives on minimum wage. My friend does the same......nothing. Left behind with no future working in a deadend job.

He doesnt understand, if he wants to get somewhere in life. He needs to get a better paid job, which requires skilling up. Maybe even getting a degree, which is hard work. Then he will stand more of an chance getting what his parents had.

The bar is far more higher (along with everything else!) for us now compared to the previous generations. Even with all the advanced tech in the world.

I think you touch on part of the problem. It's hard to take complaints about things being expensive seriously when so much money is spaffed up the wall in frivolities.

A prime example is one of my cousins. She's currently on holiday in the Seychelles. Her social media pages are just pics of her and her mates in bars, restaurants and on holidays.
She was whinging that she'll never be able to afford a house.
She's also never worked a day in her life.
Go figure.

Thats fine for them if they have someone else funding their life style. Such as boyfriend/husband, parents or child benefits.

 

[spaggyboy]

Richer parents = richer kids in many cases, cheap goods in general, access to the internet, endless entertainment, mobile phones and technology generally making our lives easier, the sum total of mankinds knowledge at your fingertips, better working conditions/rights, better quality housing, less sexism/racism. Yeah its completely awful...

As I have said, it goes both ways. In almost every way I would rather be young now than 50 years ago but in a few big ways its much worse. Swings and roundabouts.

Having nicer toys to play with is in no way a substitute from the fundamentals of modern-day existence (cost of housing, lower wages, crap pensions, expensive further education, etc) being measurably worse than they were for the Boomers. Especially when you add the fact that the Boomer Generation have systematically set out to sabotage their Grandchildren's future prospects by denying them access to those same advantages.

 

[Dis86]

Having nicer toys to play with is in no way a substitute from the fundamentals of modern-day existence (cost of housing, lower wages, crap pensions, expensive further education, etc) being measurably worse than they were for the Boomers. Especially when you add the fact that the Boomer Generation have systematically set out to sabotage their Grandchildren's future prospects by denying them access to those same advantages.

You're assuming it's malice and not just utter incompetence or laziness.

 

[bigmike20vt]

Having nicer toys to play with is in no way a substitute from the fundamentals of modern-day existence (cost of housing, lower wages, crap pensions, expensive further education, etc) being measurably worse than they were for the Boomers. Especially when you add the fact that the Boomer Generation have systematically set out to sabotage their Grandchildren's future prospects by denying them access to those same advantages.

I dont totally disagree but i think you paint an overly rosy picture...... as i child (and i am not even the generation you are insinuating had it easier) i remember lying awake at night freezing cold with 2 or 3 blankets as well as thick PJs and socks etc. we had no central heating, no double glazing, in a morning my job was scraping ice off the inside of the windows, whilst my dad went down and lit the fire.

my dad worked from around 7:30 in a morning till maybe 5pm in winter, but in summer often till 8 / 9pm he then had a 2nd job as a farm hand at weekends or sometimes in an evening if he was home early and it was light.

we used to cut trees down (with permission) from the local farmer to burn on the fire after my dad lost his job and we could not afford coal. my mum worked as a dinner lady at school earning the equivalent of what a young teenager may get now on a paper round.... but sometime she bought left overs home which would do for tea.

we had a black and white telly handmedown from my grandparents (i remember when we went colour - also hand me down).

my athsma was out of control because they could not afford to heat the house properly.

our car was a 1960s woolsey which rained in. i remember having to lift feet up if it had rained too much due to pubbles in the car which would freeze in winter.

This isnt to make a sob story.......... over all i had an amazing childhood, but it was also brutal. I dont doubt some people still live like that now but it would definitely be considered below the poverty line now and i would not expect the vast majority of people to make the sacrifices now that my parents had to for me.

at some point in the 80s they turned it round, i was older allowing my mum to get a better job working in the local shop and my dad set up his own building business (thatcher government small business loan... love her or hate her it was that loan which changed our lives) and we never looked back.

 

[spaggyboy]

I dont totally disagree but i think you paint an overly rosy picture...... as i child (and i am not even the generation you are insinuating had it easier) i remember lying awake at night freezing cold with 2 or 3 blankets as well as thick PJs and socks etc. we had no central heating, no double glazing, in a morning my job was scraping ice off the inside of the windows, whilst my dad went down and lit the fire.

my dad worked from around 7:30 in a morning till maybe 5pm in winter, but in summer often till 8 / 9pm he then had a 2nd job as a farm hand at weekends or sometimes in an evening if he was home early and it was light.

we used to cut trees down (with permission) from the local farmer to burn on the fire after my dad lost his job and we could not afford coal. my mum worked as a dinner lady at school earning the equivalent of what a young teenager may get now on a paper round.... but sometime she bought left overs home which would do for tea.

we had a black and white telly handmedown from my grandparents (i remember when we went colour - also hand me down).

my athsma was out of control because they could not afford to heat the house properly.

our car was a 1960s woolsey which rained in. i remember having to lift feet up if it had rained too much due to pubbles in the car which would freeze in winter.

This isnt to make a sob story.......... over all i had an amazing childhood, but it was also brutal. I dont doubt some people still live like that now but it would definitely be considered below the poverty line now and i would not expect the vast majority of people to make the sacrifices now that my parents had to for me.

at some point in the 80s they turned it round, i was older allowing my mum to get a better job working in the local shop and my dad set up his own building business (thatcher government small business loan... love her or hate her it was that loan which changed our lives) and we never looked back.

 

[bigmike20vt]

lol i wont lie its not far off what i said........... except i am not sitting here in a tux with a ciger
(and what i said is absolutely true)


(but money does not buy you happiness is utter bunk... maybe it doesnt in and of itsself, but it removes a lot of the stresses in life which absolutely can lead to unhappiness. its a lot easy to find happiness when you can pay the bills.

 

[fez]

Having nicer toys to play with is in no way a substitute from the fundamentals of modern-day existence (cost of housing, lower wages, crap pensions, expensive further education, etc) being measurably worse than they were for the Boomers. Especially when you add the fact that the Boomer Generation have systematically set out to sabotage their Grandchildren's future prospects by denying them access to those same advantages.

I agree up to a point but you are ignoring a huge number of things I listed that are massive quality of life upgrades. Things that fundamentally make our lives easier and better. They aren't just nice toys.

The biggest difference with these things is that they are considered a basic right now when they weren't 50 years ago. As I said earlier in the thread. My upbringing would be considered abject poverty yet it really wasn't. Expectations have changed.