Entitlement what can we do about it.

[dowie]

About 20 years ago, I realised that software work paid the best in the USA, so that was always my dream. The alternative track that I had in mind was to become a day contractor in the UK, earning £400 to £600 /day (rates may be better now), but I went to the USA instead.

Suffice to say, the UK doesn't pay software engineers very much (compared to the USA), unless you work for a US tech company, but even then, you'll still be calibrated to "local market rates".

Yup, the only exception in the UK perhaps is some niche areas of finance; everything else pales in comparison to US comp in tech.

 

[krooton]

They may have been jerks, but I bet they were bloody good at their jobs, I know/knew a few and they certainly were

Nope, much like politicians, they were all bluster, no balls.

In my industry, we either all win, or we all lose, there is not internal competition. The goal is to do better than our competing brands, not 'beating' colleagues.

 

[Haggisman]

Suffice to say, the UK doesn't pay software engineers very much (compared to the USA), unless you work for a US tech company, but even then, you'll still be calibrated to "local market rates".

How do living costs, and workers rights compare?

 

[Uther]

How do living costs, and workers rights compare?

Ten minutes holiday a year and can be marched out the building on a whim and no notice I think.

 

[krooton]

How do living costs, and workers rights compare?

I have been offered roles multiple times from our US head office, for noticeably more money, and I refuse every time.

 

[GlitterBalls]

Fixed

I should have put /s at the end. But yes I meant worse too

 

[dowie]

We pay our graduates straight from uni with a degree in CS 6 figures excluding bonus and stocks.

That must be a fairly extreme exception tho, even in tech. I think the average more generic graduate scheme starting salary is still hovering around £30k or so, maybe a touch more in London?

no, standard big tech.

Demonstrably false:

Junior pay @facebook

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

Junior pay @google

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

Junior pay @amazon

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

The few with low six-figure salaries at google, facebook etc.. are postgrads going in at L4, a grad is going in at L3 and they're not getting "6 figures excluding bonus and stocks" as standard unless they're some MIT/CMU/Ivy League/or good Californian college grad in the US.

 

[D.P.]

Demonstrably false:

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

Software Engineer Salary in London, United Kingdom

The average Software Engineer salary range in London, United Kingdom is from £69,515 to £132,958. View Software Engineer salaries across top companies broken down by base pay, stock, and bonus.

www.levels.fyi

The few with low six-figure salaries at google, facebook etc.. are postgrads going in at L4, a grad is going in at L3 and they're not getting "6 figures excluding bonus and stocks" as standard unless they're some MIT/CMU/Ivy League/or good Californian college grad in the US.

im not in london

 

[Uther]

D.P. is in the US I think.

 

[Dis86]

D.P. is in the US I think.

He has this weird thing where he claims to be mega intelligent but then neglects to notice or provide key details.

 

[GGizmo]

I think the biggest problem in this country is that the majority of jobs aren't paid a proper wage.

When the government is having to top up people in work with welfare then its a failed system.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Ten minutes holiday a year and can be marched out the building on a whim and no notice I think.

That’s about right.

Add in house prices that make London look almost affordable and that 60-70% of younger software engineers in Silicon Valley are Indian or Chinese nationals on H1B type visas, so if they loose their job at the employer named on said visa, they have to leave the country.

 

[Jono8]

I wonder why people are demanding more money now? Can't be to do with the cost of living crisis with the inflation of normal goods and then the astronomical house prices of the last few years. It's definitely they are entitled
I do think there has been a shift in culture where less people are willing to go the 'extra mile' in work. But to be fair I think a lot of people have cottoned on that they do that extra bit but then don't get rewarded for it so what's the point?

100% this. Most people are wondering what the point is.

If companies want really hard working, motivated and skilled people, pay them properly!

 

[randomshenans]

I think it's a mix, but at the same time the UK is 18th on the list of average monthly salaries in the world but 4th for highest childcare costs per month. That's just one example. If you add in the cost of housing, I'm sure the UK would be pretty damn high up there too, compared to where it ranks on wages.

 

[mcast123]

Surely the lazy ones will not progress? if not, kudos to them being smart enough to play the system.

The fact remains, stop worrying about others and work on yourself.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Surely the lazy ones will not progress? if not, kudos to them being smart enough to play the system.

The fact remains, stop worrying about others and work on yourself.

Granted I've only been working 10 years but from what I've seen being useless and/or lazy seems to transcend generations.

 

[Nitefly]

I think ‘over entitlement’ needs to go in hand with ‘lack of empathy’ on the other side.

For example, it is aggressively more difficult for young persons to buy a house in recent times because of the amount of capital needed to make the deposit - house prices have risen higher than many people can be reasonably expected to save.

The asking price my own house has risen 20% (well over £100k) in 18 months. Similar % increases are seen at the lower end of the spectrum (in Bristol). If I were in the same circumstances now, I could no longer have afforded to buy my first home that I bought 7 years ago.

Saying “everyone should stop spending any money, save everything and move somewhere different away from your current life” is a little silly.

I make this point only because I felt the rhetoric in the mortgage thread of “young people are borrowing too much money - it’s their own fault” was unfair.

Temperance and empathy are needed from everyone - not just the younger generation.

 

[adidan]

Entitlement isn't the sole domain of the young.

I also don't envy them of having £40k+ of debt to start their careers with.

 

[dowie]

im not in london

That's a pretty important bit of context, not specifying the country or even the currency makes the "six figure salary" for CS grads claim too vague.

 

[silvagti]

The fact remains, stop worrying about others and work on yourself.

+1

Focusing about the poor choices of others is always a road to ruin .