Epic Games Store now open!

Tombstone said:
Only people lacking in their own morals will pirate, in which event simply proves them to be hypocrites. I would hope that anyone wanting to truly make a point would just boycott buying it and not play it rather than pirate it.
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I expect a lot of people to come out saying they will pirate (as in the replies to jims video), but probably only a fraction of them to actually do it.

The one time i have justified piracy is when its due to lack of legal availability e.g. if its no longer possible to buy such content.

A refusal to buy on epic store because of principles doesnt quite meet the above requirement, but been honest I would rather people pirate epic exclusives than cave in and buy from that store. I guess I am a hypocrite. Of course I am also ok with them waiting till end of exclusivity and buying from steam which would be my preferred outcome so steam stays afloat and a message is still sent.

My opinion of certain publishers has nosedived, especially when the metro publisher said if you dont like it we will simply quit the PC market altogether, thats the type of comments dictators make.
 
I'm just someone who believes that its better to rise above than lower yourself, so if people have issue with Epic and want to boycott them, then fair enough, quite right for them to protest in that manner. If however they have issue with Epic and choose to steal instead, then thats not right in my book, thats simply lowering themselves and their principles to the same tier as the very people they have issue with. I was always brought up to be the better man, rather than to lower my own standards.

You are probably right though, many gamers bark loudly but rarely back it up with real actions, so just as many will say they wont buy from Epic and then actually will, Im sure many will say they will pirate but wont.

There is of course a certain irony in not wanting Epic launcher because of fears of chinese data snooping but then being fine with the risky nature of torrenting :)
 
chrcoluk said:
What the Epic CEO has forgotten is consumers can choose to torrent the game instead or even avoid it altogether.

I can forsee a rebellion coming here and a rampant rise in piracy.

I have already emailed some CEO's of publishers of games I buy to tell them if they go epic exclusive I will not be buying anymore of their products.
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+1
 
Tombstone said:
I'm just someone who believes that its better to rise above than lower yourself, so if people have issue with Epic and want to boycott them, then fair enough, quite right for them to protest in that manner. If however they have issue with Epic and choose to steal instead, then thats not right in my book, thats simply lowering themselves and their principles to the same tier as the very people they have issue with. I was always brought up to be the better man, rather than to lower my own standards.

You are probably right though, many gamers bark loudly but rarely back it up with real actions, so just as many will say they wont buy from Epic and then actually will, Im sure many will say they will pirate but wont.

There is of course a certain irony in not wanting Epic launcher because of fears of chinese data snooping but then being fine with the risky nature of torrenting :)
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Very, very few games would make me bow to the pressure and actually buy into the epic store though. Maybe at this point Cyberpunk 2077 would be the only title that would do it. Even then I could always buy on PS4 if I wanted to avoid it and still play the game.

Torrenting is generally risk free if you know what you're doing, contrary to popular belief stuff isn't laden with viruses and spyware from reputable sources.

I support devs and publishers that make games, especially if they are DRM free, but even if they aren't, as long as they are not epic exclusives I'll still support them. If they are epic exclusives then I feel no remorse for getting them by other means as they have removed my choice.
 
HungryHippos said:
Very, very few games would make me bow to the pressure and actually buy into the epic store though. Maybe at this point Cyberpunk 2077 would be the only title that would do it. Even then I could always buy on PS4 if I wanted to avoid it and still play the game.

Torrenting is generally risk free if you know what you're doing, contrary to popular belief stuff isn't laden with viruses and spyware from reputable sources.

I support devs and publishers that make games, especially if they are DRM free, but even if they aren't, as long as they are not epic exclusives I'll still support them. If they are epic exclusives then I feel no remorse for getting them by other means as they have removed my choice.
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Well we are all different people I suppose. Theft is theft and piracy is piracy in my view. I'm sure some people, just like other forms of theft and piracy can and do, find ways to justify it. I personally would simply not play rather than lower myself to piracy but as I say, we are all different and all have different standards and morals. We can only be who we are.
 
Tombstone said:
Well we are all different people I suppose. Theft is theft and piracy is piracy in my view. I'm sure some people, just like other forms of theft and piracy can and do, find ways to justify it. I personally would simply not play rather than lower myself to piracy but as I say, we are all different and all have different standards and morals. We can only be who we are.
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Aye, as I said I do buy games and support devs where I can, but this new meta of getting exclusives onto a platform I don't want changes the game, and not in a good way.

A really good title will stand on it's own piracy or not, Witcher 3 for example was very successful but had no DRM at all.

Downloading a game to test it can also be a good way to see if you actually like a title as well, the 2 hour trial on Steam is not always quite enough to prove it.
 
HungryHippos said:
Aye, as I said I do buy games and support devs where I can, but this new meta of getting exclusives onto a platform I don't want changes the game, and not in a good way.

A really good title will stand on it's own piracy or not, Witcher 3 for example was very successful but had no DRM at all.

Downloading a game to test it can also be a good way to see if you actually like a title as well, the 2 hour trial on Steam is not always quite enough to prove it.
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As I say, its a black and white line for me. I often read peoples justifications for why they do it but all I see them as is excuses. Its just who I am that I wont do it, nor will I condone it. However we are all different and we all live by our own set of principles and morals, no justification that anyone ever gives me will make me think they are right for doing it and nothing I ever say will make them think they are wrong for doing it, so all we can do is live by our own guidelines.

(A way of thinking that is applicable to everything in life of course, not just piracy)
 
Tombstone on the subject of piracy if steam were to fold, then the repercussions would be huge, consumers after losing massive libraries which depend on steam DRM the trust in digital ownership of games on PC will collapse on a level of the 1980s gaming crash in my opinion. People would pirate in large numbers if that happened I reckon as well as move to console. Epic seem to be trying to just kill the competition so they have the defacto monopoly but if they succeed I think the publishers will get a just response.

In a competitive market the consumer picks the winner, in this case we have even the CEO of the product admitting its not the consumer but the suppliers (publishers) picking the winner and that is an admittance this is not typical competition.
 
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Piracy isn't mostly acceptable when the games are available to easily buy. The whole point of buying the games is to give you the right to play them, if you don't buy them you don't have the right to download it without paying.

If Steam did fold, sure it'd be a shock and huge loss but would torrenting really be the biggest issue? You would have already purchased said game from Steam, so it isn't like the developers didn't get paid. Even though you technically would need to buy a seperate license for each copy owned, I think on PC so long as you only have the one copy is acceptable (if for example you lost access to your Steam copy).

But simply torrenting the game, for whatever reason you come up with is wrong, you didn't pay for the license to play said game. Then there is the issue of saying I torrent to test games out, sure some will genuinely do this but a large majority won't when they don't have any restrictions.

This piracy issue could be helped if developers started to release demos again. This obviously doesn't work for Steam going down but I don't think that will ever change in a digital age.
 
I havent personally pirated a game for nearly 2 decades, not even to trial a game. I personally have no issues with people grabbing a game to test it or if it cannot be purchased e.g. snes roms, although now we have the 2 hour refund system on steam it removes the need for that on steam games.

On the subject of epic tho I am not justifying anything, I am just trying to predict what would happen, and I think the relationship between PC gamers and publishers will hit a new low if steam were to fold because of epic.

From my view point, the publishers will be aware the epic store has a lack of gaming features, they will be aware its unpopular for various reasons, and they will be aware that people will have to register on a new service to buy their games, but some publishers despite all this are still taking epic's cash for exclusivity, which shows the respect they have for the consumers buying their games.
 
chrcoluk said:
I havent personally pirated a game for nearly 2 decades, not even to trial a game. I personally have no issues with people grabbing a game to test it or if it cannot be purchased e.g. snes roms, although now we have the 2 hour refund system on steam it removes the need for that on steam games.

On the subject of epic tho I am not justifying anything, I am just trying to predict what would happen, and I think the relationship between PC gamers and publishers will hit a new low if steam were to fold because of epic.

From my view point, the publishers will be aware the epic store has a lack of gaming features, they will be aware its unpopular for various reasons, and they will be aware that people will have to register on a new service to buy their games, but some publishers despite all this are still taking epic's cash for exclusivity, which shows the respect they have for the consumers buying their games.
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Makes you wonder really, what amount of money can make up for a big loss in sales from the largest single platform?

Not sure if the PC still holds the largest individual marketshare, been a while :p
 
chrcoluk said:
Tombstone on the subject of piracy if steam were to fold, then the repercussions would be huge, consumers after losing massive libraries which depend on steam DRM the trust in digital ownership of games on PC will collapse on a level of the 1980s gaming crash in my opinion. People would pirate in large numbers if that happened I reckon as well as move to console. Epic seem to be trying to just kill the competition so they have the defacto monopoly but if they succeed I think the publishers will get a just response.
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Perhaps , though to me that says more about the people than anything else. Even if Steam collapsed I wouldnt resort to piracy. As I've mentioned its just a line I wont cross, admittedly though I have an unusual moral compass compared to most these days.
 
if any digital store collapsed with games i have on it, i would not feel guilty at all of sourcing the game from elsewhere (legally wrong, perhaps but morally I could happily look someone in the eye after it)..... GabeN stated in the unlikley event steam was to close shop that before hand everyone would be allowed to download an iso of every game on the store...... so the way i see it, if steam went under and i couldnt do that, then i will don my eye patch and dig out my stuffed parrot and peg leg. (not that it would help much with any MP games)

Before anyone argues this, i suggest you read this and consider if you are about to be a giant hypocrite ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...egal-again-after-high-court-overturns-new-law

Its moot however..... Anyone spreading FUD about steam going under now it has a few rivals (not accusing anyone here btw) either is tin foil hatting or has an agenda imo. Steam is going no where and imo the safe money is on steam still being the top dog on PC in 10 years time.

Epic launcher is lacking some pretty important features (biggest for me being cloud saves), this is a very valid complaint and one Epic will do well to pull their finger out about and get sorted.
Protecting valve from competition to stop them going under however isnt a valid issue imo.
 
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bigmike20vt said:
if any digital store collapsed with games i have on it, i would not feel guilty at all of sourcing the game from elsewhere (legally wrong, perhaps but morally I could happily look someone in the eye after it)..... GabeN stated in the unlikley event steam was to close shop that before hand everyone would be allowed to download an iso of every game on the store...... so the way i see it, if steam went under and i couldnt do that, then i will don my eye patch and dig out my stuffed parrot and peg leg. (not that it would help much with any MP games).
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Well see now that's entirely your choice and I'm 100% certain that you wouldn't be the only one to do so. Its just not something that I would do, I'd just accept that I couldn't play those games anymore and move on. As I say though everyone is different and has different boundaries.
 
Tombstone said:
Well see now that's entirely your choice and I'm 100% certain that you wouldn't be the only one to do so. Its just not something that I would do, I'd just accept that I couldn't play those games anymore and move on. As I say though everyone is different and has different boundaries.
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indeed personal choice. Out of curiosity and no judging from me either way... did you also refrain from copying your cds etc to play in your car or mp3 player? (because that is also illegal) - i reckon 99% of people have no issue at all making copies of music they have, I just find it interesting that many people - so not really aimed at you - feel differently about software.
 
bigmike20vt said:
indeed personal choice. Out of curiosity and no judging from me either way... did you also refrain from copying your cds etc to play in your car or mp3 player? (because that is also illegal) - i reckon 99% of people have no issue at all making copies of music they have, I just find it interesting that many people - so not really aimed at you - feel differently about software.
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I never had music CDs, I don't like to drive with any music on as I like to drive in quiet. Never owned an MP3 player as I've never had a need to listen to music when out and about. I don't really have much freetime to listen to music. I do listen to Audible audiobooks a lot when flying to and from work as it drowns out the noise of screaming children on the planes, if that counts :)
 
Interestingly I re-installed Uplay for the first time in years last night, in order to grab the free copy of Assassin's Creed Unity they've giving away, and because I'm getting Assassin's Creed Origins via Humble Monthly at the end of the month... Having not used it in a long time I decided to have a quick skim through their store and see what had changed... It's interesting comparing it to Epic Store...

I think it's widely agreed that UPlay as an actual storefront/distributor is not exactly a "success" - it hasn't toppled steam or anything, and although it basically works it doesn't really feel like it offers anything better than Steam does (even after all this time) so clearly what they're doing hasn't made Uplay a "Steam Killer" either... and the comparison is a bit ropey because the titles on Uplay are (mostly?) 1st-party

But what I did notice is a clear example of what actual competition can look like... Ubi don't hoard their games onto Uplay and keep them off of their competitors - you can still buy them on Steam or key sites if you want to (though you still need to use UPlay as a launcher even if via Steam)... then to try and encourage you to buy directly on Uplay they offer Store Exclusive Deals... So for instance if you want to buy Origins + Odyssey together on Uplay it'll only cost you about £30 all-in, which is quite a saving compared to buying it on Steam. There you go - you need Uplay either way, if having it on Steam means that much to you feel free to go there but you'll have to pay slightly more for the privilege. I certainly feel like if I end up really enjoying Unity + Origins I might pickup Syndicate or Odyssey directly from Uplay
 
uncle_rufus said:
Interestingly I re-installed Uplay for the first time in years last night, in order to grab the free copy of Assassin's Creed Unity they've giving away,

...But what I did notice is a clear example of what actual competition can look like... Ubi don't hoard their games onto Uplay and keep them off of their competitors - you can still buy them on Steam or key sites if you want to (though you still need to use UPlay as a launcher even if via Steam)... then to try and encourage you to buy directly on Uplay they offer Store Exclusive Deals...

...I think it's widely agreed that UPlay as an actual storefront/distributor is not exactly a "success"...
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I think these are key points of your message. UPlay have attempted to gain market share by using a strategy of deals which are exclusive to their store (as opposed to full exclusivity), but as a result it hasn't been very successful.

Therefore, why would Epic try to follow a strategy which has been proved to fail on other stores? They are trying something different instead.
 
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